Imtp final stages

[ANGELISCLAIR]

Hi, I have a 10yr old English springer spaniel with IMTP. This is his second bout in the space of 3 months. After the first bout he was only in remission 8 days before the bruising came back on his tummy. Because he had such a bad time with the meds first time round that we aren't going to subject him to it again and we're letting nature take its course. What I was wondering if anyone knew what the last stages of the disease are? He's still eating and drinking and wanting to come on short walks as he tires very quickly. Also in the last 24 hrs he's started coughing and bringing up thick White mucus. But no bleeding yet, if there was going to be. Id just like to know what I should be looking for in the last stages so I can put things in motion before he gets too distressed. I don't want him struggling unnecessarily. Thank you.

[Clover]

Final stage of the disease is internal bleeding- this is a very painful way to go, and I would hope that if you are not going to treat his disease that you will at least let him go before he suffers so. 

[ANGELISCLAIR]

yes we are. I spoke to my vet this morning and we're going pick a day for it to be done while he's still well.

[Jo CIMDA]

Hi

I am very sorry to read this.  Please,  before you make any decisions that you can't reverse, can you check that the dose of prednisolone  your dog was receiving was correct.  Dogs with IMTP can and do survive,  but the treatment protocol is crucial to the outcome.  If his platelets are low then a drug call Vincristine can be quite amazing when trying to raise the platelets and this gives time for the treatment to work.  Please check out the Michael J Day protocol in the files.  It is the best protocol I have come across and it has worked for so many dogs.

Jo

[Jo CIMDA]

PS.  I do not know your vet, but so many vets in general practice do not know how to treat autoimmune diseases.  Can you get a referral?

Jo

[ANGELISCLAIR]

He reacted very badly to the steroids and we're not going to put him through that again. He was very poorly and sad. It's not a decision we've taken lightly that's for sure. He's on his last Atopica today so I'm booking the vet this week to come and pts. He's been the best, loyal dog ever and it's the last kindness I can do for him.

[Catherine]

Obviously I do not know how bad he was on the steroids. Maybe he was on too high a dose or too low a dose or not the correct medication. Also he may not have been on a gastroprotectant and that could cause him more problems.

What I do know though, is that a lot of dogs' can be at death's door and then given the correct treatment they turn around and within days, weeks they are SO much better. It DOES feel, at times, a long struggle, and sometimes, an owner can wonder if the dog is suffering but the dog is very ill so this will be reflected in his behaviour and appearance. Saying that though, I am so glad I gave my dog with AIHA a chance to get better. Myself, I would certainly not have put to sleep a dog that was "sad" and not whilst he was "still well."  I  would exhaust all other avenues before making the decision. That is just my view having seen how ill my dog was and then how she improved and went on to have many more years of normal life without any more medication.

[DW]

hello

I was so hesitant to say anything - as I and everyone knows it is only you that knows your dog and are in the best position to make any decisions.
He is 10 years old - not old  but at an age where things take a harder toll and are perhaps? more difficult to overcome/recover fro serious illness.
I am sure everyone on this group has a story to tell of having to make that decision at some stage - I had to, with a 7 year old and it's not an easy decision to make...that is why I am saying that if you have gone through all the torment and painful decision making,  you have to be making the right decision and only you will know that.....however...

My case is totally different to yours I know but we too are struggling with IMTP and we are now on our third attempt of trying to achieve remission and we too will have gone through and are going through really horrible times, mostly down to medication.
Harley is now rising 5 and was diagnosed at two.   I had read all the pessimistic comments and (following membership of this group) all the optimism as well.  I am neither one thing or the other at the moment - just taking each day as it comes and hope....lots of it.

Harley had really bad side-effects from Prednisolone - recognised by both our own vet and Cambridge, with the results that both recognised the need to get him off them as soon as is realistically possible but at the same time recognising that they were needed to keep him alive.
I too, at the start, gave serious thought to euthanasia but I don't know, I suppose the fact that Harley himself is such a little fighter and still maintained a reasonable quality of life (this is the most important point in my opinion) we decided to fight with him.
Devastated that the initial 'try' didn't work and his platelets dropped as soon as we got down to lower Preds, we tried again.
He suffered horrendous muscle wastage, thirst, hunger, very high liver enzymes, etc., I broke my heart every time I opened the bottle of Preds...I felt I was poisoning him !!
It didn't work a second time and I asked the Vet if it was still worth trying but they thought it was and we tried other drugs (Atopica) but that was disastrous...platelets dropped lower than they had ever been.

We are now mid-way through another course of Preds and I am neither hopeful or otherwise but we have tried and because he is so happy in himself, I feel he is telling me that he wants to live......this probably sounds silly and sentimental but that is what we are doing.

The crucial thing here is quality of life and only you know the answer to that, because only you knows your dog.   I have written purely to say I fully appreciate the sadness you must feel but if there is any chance at all that he is still enjoying life (though maybe not quite as much) and if you are questioning your decision and have any doubts, maybe our story might help you?

Gwyneth

[ANGELISCLAIR]

Thank you very much Gwenyth for sharing your story with me. I really hope your dog gets the results your looking for. I have thought long and hard about this and it's the hardest decision I've ever had to make. He's been my life for the last 10yrs constant. He's my world and can't imagine life without him, but he's tired now. I can see it in his eyes. He still wants to please but his body hasn't the energy. He's always been patient with my other dogs, now he won't tolerate them near him at all. His whole demeanor has changed and that's heart breaking to see. We've talked it over and over as a family. Back tracked many times but we really know now enoughs enough. But really hope your dog recovers xx

[ANGELISCLAIR]

And Catherine it's not a case of putting a dog down while he's well, as we all know he isn't well. And if Chance is sad then he's seriously feeling ill. Id move heaven and earth if I could be sure that he will recover, but because of his age and his demeanor both I and the vets agree that this is very unlikely. They have treated other dogs with the same condition successfully but because of the rapid decline in him it's unlikely it will work. It's not a decision I've taken lightly as I've said before. This will break me but I know that for him to go while he still has a wag In his tail is the kindest thing I can do for him. I don't want him to suffer unneccessarily just to try different routes in the name of science. I love this dog more than I love anything in this world. And the day his heart stops a piece of mine will die too. But I know it's the right thing for him.

[Jo CIMDA]

Hi

When to put a dog to sleep is the most difficult decision to take  - and a very brave decision too. 

Make the most of your boy while you can and when you make that decision, it will be the right one for him.

Warmest wishes

Jo

[ANGELISCLAIR]

Thank you Jo xx