Desperate for information!

[Jo CIMDA]

Hi Tammie

Thank goodness it is only at the end of the nasal area.  I don't blame him for not liking the nose drops but needs must!

Did the vet say why Riley still has to be on Flagyl?  This could be the reason for his balance problem.

Jo

[Tammie]

No she didnt but I will ask her today. 

[gschellinger]

Jo, you may also remember what happened to Lola when she was given Flagyl the last time. She of course had IBD as well as many other immune problems. So she had been on Flagyl several times in the past (but not for long periods of time) including after she was experiencing hereditary ataxia. For that reason her vet believed she would be fine with it again. But she was not. It was not chronic use with her, and of course the vet should have thought better of it. Within a couple of days she could barely walk at all. It took Lola 2 months to recover and she did not get back to the point she was at before taking Flagyl.

I am also one who would not give it unless I had tried everything else which may help.
g.

[Jo CIMDA]

Hi Gail

We all have our own personal experiences and they are so useful to share on a forum like this.  At times, the information is often more reliable than the advice from vets. I believe it is all about the tolerance of the individual - and we can't always prepare for that.

Thanks for adding to the discussion. It is important we are able to share, agree and disagree.

Jo

[Tammie]

UPDATE ON RILEY!

Well the past 4 months have been fabulous.  Riley has regained his youth, vigor and personality.  We are now on 5mg of pred every other day and only 10 mg atopica on Monday and Thursday.   Riley has been playing and acting like he has never been sick.  He runs, plays, swims in the lake, and is as sassy as ever. 

We take him (along with the other two border collies) to the lake every weekend with us.  I take him down to the water in the mornings when it is still a decent temperature out (not too hot) and let him fetch sticks in the water.  We went three weeks ago and I noticed while he was swimming he kept tilting his head like he had water in his ear.  No biggie, got out of the lake and shook like normal and I assumed it was all good. 

Two weeks later (last week) Terry and I noticed his shaking his head a lot, scratching his ear and acting like he had an ear infection.  We bathed him not for the ear infection but because he needed it and he acted totally normal after that. 

By the way, his bloodwork has came back every month totally normal with no levels being high or low. 

Went to the lake on Friday, everything good.  Woke up Saturday and everything seemed normal.  I noticed he was a little unsturdy and looked at his eyes, they were jumping left to right really bad along with his eyebrows twitching.  Rushed him 1.5 hours away to his vet and I was told that he had vestibular swelling.  She examined his ears and said she saw no signs of an ear infection but could not see past the ear drum.  No fluid was present.  She gave him a shot of pred, upped his normal dose to 10 mg every other day, added Doxy again 2 times a day and some other antibiotic with an abbreviation of C/M (big yellow pills) three times a day. 

She ran a cbc and it came back as low platelets  and low RBC.   Last CBC was on 07/16/13 his RBC was 6.16 and platelets were 345.  Now RBC is 5.53 and platelets are 136. 

We will return for bloodwork in 5 days.  Should I be more concerned or be doing a different regimen?  Also will a food that is high in iron such as chicken livers or some type of liver help his overall anemia? 

Thanks for the advice

[Jo CIMDA]

How disappointing for you Tammy.  What regime is Riley on now? Increasing the prednisolone to 10mg EOD and adding Doxy again won't address an autoimmune relapse, so I wonder if this episode is unrelated.   Is he still on metronidazole?

Jo

[Tammie]

His total regime right now is 10 mg pred EOD, 10mg atopica on Monday and Thursday, Doxy 2 times a day and another antibiotic calle C/M three times a day.  We are thinking he may be presenting with some Central Nervous system issues.  His hind legs have slight tremors when he is relaxing.  Then this with his eyes shaking.  I think I notice his pupils not being the same size today.  Dr. Visit tomorrow.  I think I am going to discuss with her the possibility of an MRI.

I am giving 1tsp of salmon oil every day to support the CNS.

[gschellinger]

Is he on Flagyl? If so it could be causing the neuro problems. Lola had bad reactions with it.

gail

[Tammie]

No.  He was for quite a while but has been off of it for at least a couple of months.  He is showing signs of weakness in the right rear leg and seems to be nipping at his back every now and then almost like he has a flea (which is possible).

[Jo CIMDA]

Hi Tammy

Did your vet run a full biochemical blood test too - I'm sure they would have done.  I just wondered if anything showed up such as liver enzymes raised? 

Iron supplement would only help if the anaemia was iron deficiency anaemia.  The vet would probably have checked for this.

It doesn't seem like a relapse of his AI problem because I can't see his blood improving like that unless your vet gave him an immunosuppressive dose of preds and continued with the immunosuppressive regime.

I hope you can find out the problem soon.

Jo

[Tammie]

LIver enzymes were raised about a month ago.  Not now. DIdnt check the liver this time. Recheck today revealed normal RBC, normal platelets (387), and all bloodwork was WNL.  She reduced the pred to 5mg EOD again and Atopica 10 mg on Monday and Thursday.

Wondering if it might be SRMA

[Jo CIMDA]

Hi Tammy

Riley would not be better if it had been an inflammatory autoimmune disease. I have never heard of a dog having nystagmus (eye flickers) with SRMA.

I wonder if the blood results are a red herring and perhaps there were clumps in the sample taken.  This would give a lower reading of both the platelets and the red blood cells.  It is not uncommon. This doesn't give you an answer as to why he was unsteady and had nystagmus.  It sounds like vestibular disease. This can spontaneously resolve, usually in about 3 weeks and it often starts with an inner ear problem and is most common in older dogs.  Did he have a head tilt? Is he still showing neurological signs?

Jo

[gschellinger]

 Lola started her journey of hereditary cerebellar ataxia in much the same way. There are maybe five breeds who can have this disease, late onset. Not sure if your breed is one of them.
gail