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Cooper again

Started by Shannon, August 30, 2012, 04:23:06 PM

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Penel CIMDA moderator

That's really good that the liver and kidney results are ok.
You haven't treated him with flea chemicals or anything like that in the last week or so? no new sprays in the house / carpet cleaners / plug in air fresheners?  wracking my brains to think of some reason for him to react like this.
As Jo says - a combination of antepsin and ranitidine (zantac) is better - maybe talk to the vet about more gastro protectants.

I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time with Cooper these last few days, I know how stressful it all is.
Penel
(SLE, Surrey - UK)
Forum Owner
CIMDA

Shannon

I'm so very relieved they came back ok. I was expecting hugely elevated liver enzymes to be honest.

He hasn't had any flea/tick treatments for months and I haven't brought anything new into the house. The only thing that I can think of thats changed at all was his bag of food and the bone in the last ten days, the clipping was also round that time too. I just wish he'd perk up a little and give me even a tiny wag.

Jo CIMDA

Hi Shannon

It's a relief to know that his liver and kidney values are ok.  I suppose the look of his liver must be normal for him then. That is comforting.

Cockers are very prone to pancreatitis and this risk would be higher when on steroids, so try to give him a low fat diet and perhaps feed him smaller meals and more often, like 4 times a day.  This is just a precaution.

It is very rare to positively identify the trigger for an AI disease/relapse.  There has to be one though and all we can do is to limit the obvious ones and hope for the best. I am hopeful that the liver support will help.

I do hope Coop picks up soon.

Jo

Jo CIMDA

Quote from: Shannon on September 03, 2012, 07:48:09 PM
Just got his biochem results back and liver and kidneys are okay. I'm so relieved about that. I'm now wondering if I the underlying problem is GIT related, in light of the strange poops he's passing.

Hi Shannon

Yes, very possible.  If it carries on perhaps you should take a sample in to the vet to check for campylorbacter, salmonella etc., although the metronidazole should have dealt with this.

Perhaps it is the food.  There is always a possibility that the food is contaminated.  I can remember years ago my dogs became very ill because their food had been contaminated due to the change in factory conditions and a new process plant, and it wasn't only my dogs but many, many more.
Jo

Shannon

Hi Jo,

I will definitely keep him on a low fat diet. Pancreatitis is the last thing he needs! He's eating little bits 4 times a day at the moment because of the tummy thing and also because I'm a bit concerned about the rapid weight loss.

I will definitely put him on some sucralfate along with the ranitidine. The more protection the better. I was speaking to a veterinary pharmacist a little while ago about whether it matters if you give it 2 hours before or after the other drugs, because I was told that it didn't. What he told me made an awful lot of sense... He says that one should give the sucralfate first because it binds to the hydrogen ions available in the stomach. If you give it 2 hours after the ranitidine then because its an H2 blocker there will be less hydrogen ions available for the sucralfate to bind to. I found it really interesting and had never thought of it that way.

I have a niggly feeling about that bag of food. Its an organic food made in the states and is better quality than the Hills, Eukanuba and RC that are touted as the highest quality foods in this country. It was the last bag on the shelf and I'm wondering how long it had been sitting there...


Penel CIMDA moderator

#35
IF you feel funny about the bag of food chuck it away and feed him on a homecooked diet for a few weeks.  Boiled white fish and rice / potato, boiled chicken and rice, scrambled egg etc.  Cut out everything that may be causing a problem.

I don't rate Hills, Eukanuba at all - way too many ingredients and additives.  Fish 4 dogs is a good kibble, Burns is ok although quite a lot of dogs don't like it, Orijen (maybe this is what you were talking about) is great.  My 6 dogs are all raw fed with an occasional meal of Naturediet or Forthglade for the ones who can tolerate it.

I don't really understand the science of giving the antepsin before but it's good to know, thanks.
Penel
(SLE, Surrey - UK)
Forum Owner
CIMDA

Shannon

Hi Penel,

He's been on chicken and rice since friday but I'm not sure it agrees with his tum so I will switch to white fish today and see if that is easier on him.

Your dogs are lucky to be raw fed. It is so much healthier for them. I have wanted to feed Coop raw for a long time and that venison (he is allergic to beef and mutton and doesn't like raw chicken) bone he had the other day was my first attempt to phase it in but now I am not sure if it didn't play a part in his whole melt down.

He was on Earthborn Holistic food which seemed to be high quality and had few ingredients and preservatives but after this I will never trust it again.

I have heard that Orijen is being imported now although I have yet to see any. I think I will have to try him on that if I'm not brave enough to have another go at raw feeding with him.

We don't get any of the other brands you mentioned here. Its basically a choice of Hills/Eukanuba/Royal canin and then those horrific supermarket brands. They've started importing food from the States, hence the Earthborn, Orijen, Propac that's popping up etc

Its sad really because the majority of people in this country believe Eukanuba etc is just the best you can get.

Shannon

Coop seems quite a bit brighter and has started to wag and talk again. His poop also seems to be settling down and is turning brown. I'm hopeful that we are on the right track again...

Jo CIMDA

Hi Shannon

That all sounds very positive and just the signs you want to see, and the news we want to read. Perhaps he has turned the corner and will continue to improve now.  Phew!

Jo

Shannon

Thanks Jo,

It has been a very worrying time and although he is not quite himself yet, there are definitely signs of the old Cooper returning. I'm sure he must have had a bacterial infection on the go as well, although I'm not sure where, but the strong antibiotics have certainly made a big difference.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate all your support and advice, thank you so much.

Jo CIMDA

Hi Shannon

It's so lovely to see the good signs returning. Cooper probably did have a bacterial infection at the same time as a relapse. The AB's  are so important when a dog first goes on to immunosuppressive treatment.  Thank goodness Cooper received both treatments. 

It is so difficult to differenciate between a relapse of an AI disease, or  an infection, or when the dose of preds become a problem or when two of the above happen at the same time. Sometimes a stomach ulcer can cause gastric symptoms and anaemia and this can also be very confusing.  What a ride!

Jo

Penel CIMDA moderator

Well done Cooper, keep it up  :)
Penel
(SLE, Surrey - UK)
Forum Owner
CIMDA

Angela

I agree, they definitely know it's happened again poor dears  :(

Shannon, could you try a "Thunda Shirt" for Cooper; they work wonderfully for my girls in thunder storms but really can be used in any stressful situation.  I had one for my Merlin who had Typical Addison's which was used for trips to the vet in addition to thunder storms.  You can also rig up something yourself from an old T shirt, it just needs to fit snuggly around the chest and works the same as swaddling on a baby, like being held  :)
Angela (AIHA & Addison's)
NSW Australia

Shannon

Thanks for that, I'll definitely make him one and give it a try. It can only help. I think I need to teach him to relax, the ironic part is that I probably need to be taught to relax myself :)

Penel CIMDA moderator

You can easily make a TTouch body wrap from some wide stretchy bandage.  If they sell Ace bandages where you live Shannon, these are the best types to use.  On a cocker you'd probably want 1 and a half inch wide.
you tie them like this


TTouch is marvellous for stress relieving in dogs.  We have TTouch practitioners run workshops at my dog training classes - stressy reactive dogs respond amazingly well.
more info on TTouch body wraps here
http://www.crvetcenter.com/ttouch.php
Penel
(SLE, Surrey - UK)
Forum Owner
CIMDA