holly

[christina]

Hi
I purchased my little springer holly on 18 th march this year,believing the couple sold her as had adhd child torturing her n holly was only 18 months old n needed a life.
This was not the case,a month later found my lovely girl,my first dog who I absolutely adore had substantial mitrAl valve heart disease n could go into heart failure at Any time.
So I changed her diet homecooked ,vitamins ,amino acids ,fish oils,etc to try n ward off heart failure as long as could as shes a wonderful wonderful girl.
Two months went buy
Holly was in season a month got infection uterus amoxycillin several times
Then false pregnancy
Coughing more antibiotics ,thought it to do with heart
Lungs,seemed afected
She,was slowing down but thought it heart related
Then 3 and a half weeks ago I woke she was slumped down
Holly was always a wee happy bubbly excitable girl
Rushed vet thinking heart failure
Vet said ate something
?
Weekend of hell coughing spasms chest fever lethargy
Back vet Monday
Vet said respiratory tract infection
Possible pyometra as swollen inflamed red sore abdomen
Home bbaytril antibiotics
Another two days slumped fever fell
Rushed in Wednesday
Kept overnight
105 temperature
Liver enzymes up but bloods ok
Said maybe lyme disease or memingitis!!
Started treating for lyme
Released holly on five antibiotic a day
Thurs night she bad spasms pain panting ill
Friday blood in poo
Phone vet said let her heal over weekend?
I said she in pain
Rushed vet satrday said I think shes dying on me
Kept her in nine nights
Stared steroids,meningitis two days didnt help
Then went on flagyl n baytril antibiotics
She very sick started gastro protectants cimetidine sfeedin
By now red blood cells platelets very low n anaemia
They say it touch n go whether she survive
I didnt have money for lots expensive exploratories
So still no further forward whst hapening
Heart just coping n no more
Bad pain abdomen xray ultrasound see nothing in abdomen
Say if has pyometra only mms n be treated with antibiotic
Try doxycycline abx two days
Then high dose steroid ,n baytril n.let home but she brighter but pain stomach n anaemia
So cant let walk long be careful not bang herself
She has survived
Asked put back on doxycycline as well as baytril incase its lyme co infections
As needle biopsy spleen said fungus protozoa
Though flagyl anti protozoan tab no help
I live alone
Dealing with this,myself
Nursed my cat with cancer heart disease 7 months. N she died in December
I cannot believe me n holly going through this
Now vet said it could be immune mediated
Lymph nodes enlarged
Spleen enlarged
But he never ruled out meningitis ur lyme either
Symptoms very similar to.them
Shes,brighter on steroids baytril doxy n gastropeotectant
But she has a fever in the night especialy
And whole abdomen swollen sore
Give oats probiotic prebiotic fish oil yogurt
Mix camomile to relax,n nettle tea for iron in food
Feed chickens turkey steak mince potato peas carott rice chick peas n tahini for iron
Shes enjoying food whereas before steroids too ill
Steroids,will damage heart further
But white cell count has improved
Red cell count n anaemia worse
I feeding more meat for iron
Devestated
She so sore abdomen at night
Damp towel doesnt do much
Thought of rub caster oil on dunno if safe so havent
Anyone experienced dog immune mediated pain abdomen?
What could help?
Vet doesnt know what causing pain!
Could it be the bowels inflamed?
Womb?
Cant get spayed cause heart even if was well enough
She is,so restricted n I cannot stand her having pAin
Shes only 21 months,old n only together short time
But holly is my girl
Love her very dearly
Any help regard helping pain in her abdomen
Or anaemia n red cell count
Would be very apreciated
Does enlarged spleen cause pain?
Anything I can do to help that?
Any alternative health suggestions?
Thank you for listening
I cudnt get a more lovely little dog
Its breaking my heart what shes going through
C n h xx

[Jo CIMDA]

Oh Christina, I'm so sorry Holly is so unwell.  Has your vet given you a firm diagnosis - has he said she has immune mediated haemolytic anaemia or thrombocytopenia (platelets)? The two condition together is called Evan's syndrome.  I can only deduce that this is what he thinks she has and if she has improved whilst on the steroids then this is probably the correct treatment.  Do you know how much Holly weighs?  The dose for a dog with an immune mediated disease is 1-2mg/kg/12hrs. Do you know the results of the blood tests, eg., how low are her red blood cells and her platelets? Do you have any numbers

Her tummy pain could be pancreatitis.  A dog on steroids should be on a low fat diet to avoid upsetting the pancreas. I'm so please your vet has put her on a gastroprotectant. 

You said she has blood in her stool, has this improved since being on the steroids?  Has her temperature dropped? Does your vet know if the anaemia is regenerative or non regenerative?

To a certain extent, if it is an inflammatory immune mediated disease, such as haemolytic anaemia, meningitis etc.,  the treatment is the same, that is an immunosuppressive dose of steroids.  If you go into the files you will find articles about IM anaemia and thrombocytopenia and also an excellent drug protocol that can be used as a guide. 

Drugs, including flea treatments etc, stress, bacteria, vaccines etc., all have the potential to be a trigger for immune mediated disease but a major trigger factor is hormones, and a season certainly could have started this off.  Unfortunately there is no way of confirming what caused her to have an immune mediated disease but she has had a couple of triggers at least.

I presume you are back at your vets soon.  I do hope things have improved since her last visit.

Jo

[gschellinger]

It sounds confusing as to what is actually wrong with Holly. Pain in the belly as well as blood in the stool can indicate pancreatitis. Pancreatitis can be caused by steroids. So I wonder if that could be going on? Has your vet tested her for that? If it were pancreatitis it is important to let her GI tract rest, and heal, while keeping her hydrated, usually by IV or injection. Jo or someone will be on soon to help. They have more experience.
Hugs to Holly and You.
gail, and Lola.

[christina]

Hi Jo and gail
Thank you for your mails
Was at vet yestrday and hollys temperature was good 102 though still inflamed stomach area
But this,time,last week was 105 thouth it does fluctuate
The stomach pain started before she was on steroids from the moment shr collapsed
I still concerned something going on with womb as still false pregnancy but thet cudnt see pyometra n said if mms abxs meds sort it out
Vet hasnt git definitive diagnosis just trial n error with meds as I do not have much financial resources
:-(
Havent given me exact readings of platelets red white counts
Just now,they all.massively dropped from being normal when she first got ill
Hence they said touch n go whether my girl would survive or not
Will look up pancreatitis
Ask vet
Back thurs ask take bloods again see what readings are
Holly 16 kg
They say may drop 37.5 mg steroid once a day to lower dose
Keep on doxycycline as not rule,out lyme co infections
Cover all bases
Didnt rule out meningitis either
But at least shes,eating
A bit brighter in herself thouth this tum pain a real concern
And heart substantially damaged already
Bur shes,a fighter I know,she wants to be here
So we will fight together
I hope her counts are better soon
Its been a horrendous 25 days for both of us
Ten days of that she at vets
Im amazed how stoic dogs can be in the face of pain n illness
I just love her so very much
And she has been playing with her toys,a bit whereas cudnt before
Poor,soul has so many problems to contend with
How these people coyld have sold her on cause ill
It just makes you love them.all the more
X

[Jo CIMDA]

Hi Christina

There are some positive signs, and that is a good.  I hope by Thursday Holly's blood results will have improved.  If it is meningitis then this dose of steroids is ok, but if Holly's problem is  immune mediated then the dose of steroids shouldn't be lowered for at least 10 days and preferably for 21 days +.

Hoping that Holly continues to be bright and starts to recover.

Jo

[christina]

Thanks Jo
Yes its lovely to see improvement as it has only been in the last few days that there been any improvement
Before that nothing worked
By Thursday she been on this dose steroid 8 days before that she,on lesser dose n not coping
I think they concerned re heart disease
But yes,i will be concerned they lower so soon as only just begining be bit brighter n still unwell
Shall see what vet thinks
Thank you for your support!
I think its,just great having a little dog ,they are great ti be around
Though heart braking when unwell
C n h x

[Jo CIMDA]

Hi Christina

Check out the Michael J Day drug protocol in the files.  It can be used as an excellent guide.

Fingers crossed

Jo

[christina]

Hi there
Hollys white blood count is normal now on the strong steroid dose ,red blood cell count up a little bit but vet says she needs to stay on the 37.5 mg of steroids till Thursday,that will be 15 days on the strong dose then take bloods again.
The problem is holly is still very sore in the abdomen!:-(
Realy red as shaved and can see,really inflamed and very hot.
She had no abdomen pain before she slumped a month ago .
Though did have uterus infection n false pregnancy
And numerous amtibiotics because of uterus and heart problems
Holly is feeling sick on antepsin steroids doxycycline n baytril
She us sitting just now panting away nose watery just not well
Abdomen hurts n heart speeding
Im so down!:-(
Shes not even two yet
Only together since mid march n to go thru all of this
I hate that she so poorly
Thst steroids make heart worse
N worst of all her abdomen the vet cannot find out what is wrong
I give wet food
But at friends she got a lot o dog biscuits
And popping in tum n pain worse
Could her intestines or bowel be damaged now
Since she had the immune collapse?
I mix oats with every meal,yogurt,probiotic,prebiotic,fish oils,aloe vera
Yet the pain n inflamation lasts!:-(

[christina]

Holly had a bad night last night
Abdomen on fire
Had ti use frozen pack on it
She feels sick and tongue looks all wrinkly n grey n when give meds shr reluctant to open her mouth n a bit reluctant to eat
Though she has not got sickness n diareah
I feel that there is something going on in her abdomen that xray n ultrasound didnt pick up on
We are in limbo
Her being v unwell
Yet not ill enough to go to heaven but seriously afecting the quality of her life
And yet as I said vet cannot find anything in abdomen
Could it just be her immune system has caused the inflamation
?
Its so hard to see her like this
Though she is still eating
Breathing loud again !:-(
Thanks,for listening x

[gschellinger]

It sounds like an infection. Being on steroids can cause infection. If it were my dog I would get her to a different hospital to have other people look at her.
gail.

[Penel CIMDA moderator]

I think that too perhaps you need a 2nd opinion.  She sounds v poorly.

[christina]

Hi
Thanks for replies
Im afraid I dont have the financial resources to go to another vets.
And thAts why I wasnt able to get conclusive tests done also!:-(
I do my best but financially my hands are tied.
Just day at a time
Was bavk at vet today as she was shaking for hours
Vet said side effect of pred
Take day at a time
N she didnt want to eat then she picked up again
Oh boy its,a emotional rollercoaster n that is,so eurolyme
How do folk cope with thatx

[Jo CIMDA]

Hi Christina

***I'm sorry to read that Holly is not very well. I wonder if the steroids are a bit high and this is inflaming her liver giving her tummy ache?

Jo

[Angela]

Hi Christina,

As Jo said - Holly only weighs 16kg and she probably only needed 16-20mg of pred twice a day initially, it may well be the pred causing the tummy problems.  Is your vet open to discussion with you about this?

Hugs & I hope Holly is feeling better soon

[christina]

Hi
Back at vet today
Vet wudnt reduce pred yet because of anaemia n red cell count being gwt
She did five phos n lots of mucus yestrday at once
I have been saying to vet that could she have inflamed bowels?
Now I hope today this taken seriously
Vet said the shaking a soes effect of prednidale
But in the night spasms on her back breathing laboured like when she first ill
Hot
Inflamed abdomen
Vet said since white blood cells improved to normal again with pred n red cells up a bit that he sure it must be immune mediated as she would be dead by now otherwise
But if it is immune mediated could it also mean that whatever caused it is stil lurking making her ill
Could cost thousands to get conclusive tests
Desperately frustrating guessing games instead
Are most dogs with immune mediated disease realy ill for a long time?
I cannot bear holly being so poorly ,shes only 21 month old n only been together mid march
Its awful this
Im struggling as one day to next one moment to next dont know if will lose her soon
And putting her through this confuses me
Sometimes feelit unfair
But theres still life in her yet despite ill
But beginning to wonder if she will ever get past this chronic stage
It hurts so much
As shes my little darling!
Sorry sometimes make mistake predictive text
X