Edward and William at the vet today

[Penel CIMDA moderator]

There is - you need to see Sue Armstrong at Balanced Being - I have several friends who have taken their v poorly dogs to her and she has worked miracles with them.
She's very busy, and quite difficult to get hold of - but worth the wait.
http://www.balancedbeing.com/

I'd change their bowls to ceramic or metal straight away, it just rules out any toxicity leaking out of the plastic.

Natural Instinct make great food. 

[Jo CIMDA]

Hi Chris

I would also go down the holistic route.  Homoeomathy can be very successful and it's about hitting on the appropriate remedy for the dog and the condition.  How about giving Ainsworth's a call.  they are all very happy to help over the phone and the remedies aren't expensive.

Just one thought, are they drinking more than usual?  I have noticed with our Cushingoid girl that when she drinks a lot of water her eyes water.

Jo

[goldiepower]

We went back to the opthalmologist yesterday. He said Edward's eyes are still worse than William's, it is not clear whether Will has an eye problem which is itching so he's rubbed the skin or a skin problem. He said it is possible that they just did not respond to the type of steriod in the maxitrol drops, so they now have Pred suspension drops qid, William also has systemic pred (antiinflammatory dose) and antibiotics. This is a 2 week trial, see if it has any effect, then we discuss next steps which will involve referral elsewhere if this doesn't work. Meantime I will contact the holistic vet in Wetherby and take it from there.

Thanks all for the advice!
Chris & the Golden Boys

[DW]

I hope that they are able to find a cause today for you - it must be terribly worrying and frustrating.    I have only been on the Group myself 5 mins but I can sympathise with you on matters relating to possible allergies (if that is what it is)....it can often be a slow process of elimination trying to confirm what may be causing the irritation.

One thing I did learn with one of my Goldens that had an allergy problem is that you must identify or try to identify each possible irritant separately.  Think of one that may be causing it and try and remove that from daily routine.   The problem is if you think it could be numerous things and take them away from all of them, you will be no better off - as you need to identify the cause and sometimes it can be more than one thing.  (Sorry, I am sure you know this laready).

In my case, it wasn't runny eyes that signified the allergy, it was extremely itchy skin...scratching all the time, day and night.   We went through food first of all, as one Vet was 100% certain that it was dietry.   Weeks were spent going down the protein elimination route - only to confirm that it wasn't food.   
ventually, we went to see a skin specialist who suggested we had him allergy tested.    All his coat was shaved on one side and several possible allergens were tested.   It turned out, the major problem was the common Dust Mite !!!
We chose to removed all the carpets in the dog areas - which turned out to be all the ground floor !!!!  and replaced with wood flooring.
I'm not suggesting that this was necessary - but it was a good opportunity to twist hubbies arm anyway!!

What had the most effect was that we opted to take part in a trial using a vaccine that was brought in from somewhere in Europe - at that time it wasn't produced over here.    He was treated every week to start with, then fortnightly, then monthly etc. over a period of time.
This vaccine is made up according to each individuals need - depending on their allergy.   I had heard about it being used with humans but not animals.   No guarantees were given at the time.  It was very expensive and we were told that it would either have no effect, a partial effect (where we may need to return to treatment periodically i.e.seasonal) or it may, after a period of time, cure him.
We were one of the lucky ones but it took around 18 months I'd say.

From what I have found since, there are many dogs that suffer with allergies and some of things that I would question would be.....

Environment?    Household cleaners, sprays, washing powders etc. that the dogs may be coming into contact with.
                          Is their bedding washed in a particular detergent?

                          Think about where you walk your dogs.    If through fields,  have they been treated?   Pesticides etc must be one of the
                          main areas to think about.    It could be that they are transfering irritants from their paws.


Food                 

Garden?            Plants and even Grass can be the culprit.    This would be a hard one to identify - unless you have the ability of removing
                          them from the Garden for a while and keep them in a different area.   Grass is a harder thing to deal  with.


I do hope that it turn out to be something identifiable quickly for you.  Hope I have been some help.

[Walcop]

I have just read this thread.......I hope both Lola's are doing as well as possible 


Steve

[goldiepower]

After all these months we finally have a diagnosis... Zinc-responsive dermatosis... The vets think it's due to the high level of calcium in the diet which inhibits the zinc absorption. I spoke to the folks at Natural Instinct, they were REALLY helpful, I decided to cut the raw turkey by 50% and add green tripe. The vet is looking into zinc supplements to help their recovery.

This is so bizarre!!! You do what you think is best for your dogs and still mess up! BUT the good thing is that it is something that can be fixed by diet and should be totally reversible... PAWS CROSSED!!!

Chris & the Golden Boys

[Penel CIMDA moderator]

How interesting, please let us know if the situation does get resolved.

[Jo CIMDA]

Hi Chris

How strange they both got it together.  Do they think it is diet related or a genetic malabsorption problem?  It's a huge coincidence if it is the latter.  If it is diet related then will it resolve with a compensating diet? 

Knowing the problem is always a problem halved I think.

Good lcuk with the boys.

Jo

[goldiepower]

Hi Jo, yes they think it is diet-related. The genetic malabsorption problem tends to be seen in husky breeds and even then can be treated with suppliments. I have been feeding Natural Instinct working turkey for a long time, which on its own would seem to have too high a calcium content for the boys which inhibits zinc absorption. I have halved the amount of calcium due to the bone by cutting the turkey and adding green tripe (yuk!!!). The vet has ordered zinc suppliments for them which should arrive on Monday. So hopefully the modified diet and short-term suppliments should do the trick, although it will probably be a couple of months or so before we see a real difference.

I'll let you know how we get on!

Chris & the Golden Boys

[goldiepower]

ps: Sydney's eyes have also started to show signs over the last couple of weeks so all the boys are on the modified diet and will have zinc suppliments.

[Penel CIMDA moderator]

And what do Natural instinct say about this? have you told them what the vets suspect? surely if more than one dog has got this, then there's a problem with the balance of the food?  what about all the other dogs who are being fed on working turkey (i know of several incidentally!)?

[goldiepower]

Honestly, Penel, I don't blame NI at all, I have every faith in their products which have served my dogs and many others excellently. NI had not heard of the problem, neither had I, it is not common at all. I know it was my use of the diet that was wrong for my dogs. I give them other sources of calcium and over time (years) that seems to have caused the problem. I fed the same diet to my last 3 and they didn't have a problem. I am still feeding them NI working turkey but until I get them stable I'm making the changes I described as well as cutting out cheese, milk etc.

I feel really bad that I have done this to my boys, I'm just glad it is something which is easy to fix. They are all well in themselves, they have superb coats and loads of energy. I'll be glad when I get them sorted.

[Penel CIMDA moderator]

I hope it all resolves quickly for you.
This is why vets like us to feed a prescription diet unfortunately - millions of ££££ has gone into the research to prove it is all balanced - as long as you don't add other stuff.

[goldiepower]

millions of ££££ has gone into the research to prove it is all balanced - as long as you don't add other stuff.

Indeed, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa... My last 3 boys were pets/obedience competition dogs, these 3 are working gundogs so I figured they need "more" but the "more" I gave them has caused this skin problem. At least we know now and are getting sorted. It is not a mistake I will make ever again. Just goes to prove that having a good education and acaemic qualifications doesn't necessarily mean one has common sense...!!! 

Sorry boys 

ps: William's having his stitches out in the morning, he loves going to the vet so we'll probably be there a while so he can get Christmas cuddles from everyone!

[Penel CIMDA moderator]

I don't feed prescription diets at all if i can help it but lately my lurcher with IBD has had to try a few - unfortunately he can't tolerate any of them so currently he's on cooked white fish and quinoa.  Not at all balanced but he vomits if he eats anything else at all.  so I have a cupboard full of very expensive prescription diets    you can't win!!!