Joint taps and x-rays this friday:Am terrified.

[Deeinnz]

Hi all,

Had to take my boy Bossdin to the vet, AGAIN, today because he's slightly lame, and it's a shifting lameness, along with some swelling to the bottom part (ankle) of his right front leg. My vet thinks, due to his other auto-immune issues that we might be dealing with IMPA (think that's the one, poly arthritis). Jo had mentioned this to me before, when he went lame a while ago, thinking it might be SLE but he doesn't have any of the other symptoms. SLE and IMPA are different aren't they???  I'm terrified he might have SLE.

Bossdin is still happy as larry, still wanting to run like mad (I'm not letting him of course), still eating and is his normal self, bar the mild limping and swelling.

So on Friday I take him back to the vet and they will sedate him (they hope not to have to totally put him under) and take fluid samples from his joints, x-rays and while he is 'out to it' have a good look at his range of motion in all his joints.

Fingers crossed that what they find isn't too bad!!!

[Jo CIMDA]

Hi

If Bossdin had IMPA multiple joints would be implicated.  The only way is to take synoval fluid from as many joints as possible.  I hope you get an answer so that you can start treatment very soon.  I doubt it is SLE because I would expect Bossdin to be very unwell, so in a way,  I'm hoping if it is an AI problem then it is IMPA and it can be treated and remission achieved.

Good luck on Friday.

Jo

[goldiepower]

Bossdin is still happy as larry, still wanting to run like mad (I'm not letting him of course), still eating and is his normal self, bar the mild limping and swelling.

So on Friday I take him back to the vet and they will sedate him (they hope not to have to totally put him under) and take fluid samples from his joints, x-rays and while he is 'out to it' have a good look at his range of motion in all his joints.

All paws crossed for both of you

Chris & the Golden Boys x

[Penel CIMDA moderator]

I suspect he will have to have a general anaesthetic as it would be impossible to take fluid from joints if the dog is awake and possibly might move.  Best of luck, we'll all be thinking of you.

[gschellinger]

Best wishes for your boy. My dog was extremely sick when she had IMPA. High fever couldn't move, wouldn't eat. She had four or five of these mini events (vet didn't diagnose) and would recover. Then she had a major event. But she did have slight shifting lameness in between flare-ups, and didn't seem sick then.
gail.

[Deeinnz]

Thank you everyone who had written with your thoughts and best wishes.
Now that I"m over the 'shock/stress' of what has to happen tomorrow I'm feeling a lot more comfortable about it.

I also think a full anesthetic is most probably what they will need to do as my vet mentioned the need to have everything as sterile as possible. He said something along the lines of making sure everything was totally sterile and safe so as not to introduce any possible bacteria etc into an already immune compromised dog.

I've got a friend who will come with me to help while Bossdin is 'put under'. It is not possible for me to just hand Bossdin over to the vet and leave. I am going to have to be there while they put him to sleep so that he doesn't panic and go totally crazy. The vet knows this and is ok with it.

Thanks again,

Dee 

[Jo CIMDA]

Hi

If it helps, my dog has had joint taps done without a general anaesthetic or even a sedation.  The reason why this was possible is because she is very calm and her joints were so badly diffused that my vet was able to put the needle in easily.  My vet is also one who will try to get away with doing as little as possible, so I am very lucky.  We are talking about taking more joint taps and x-rays and if necessary he said that he will give her diazapam and hope that will be enough to keep her still.  I realise you can't do this with every dog but if Bossdin is a calm dog then maybe just using diazapam will be enough and a GA or sedation won't be necessary.

Good luck tomorrow.

Jo

[Joanne]

Thinking of you and hoping all is going well for your boy.

CeeCee had joint taps done by her specialist without any anesthetic...this guy is a wonder, though, and I was for the anesthetic the second time she needed them.  Don't worry.  These taps will give you a lot of information and you will have a path to go down treatment wise.  These dogs respond really well once the diagnosis is made.

Aria has just come through the AI Polyarthritis stuff....we diagnosed without the taps because she already had AIHA in her background and the symptoms were pretty much indicative of the poly.  AR has responded really well to the prednisone and she is back to her old self.

I am hoping this will be the case for your boy.

Best of luck.

[Deeinnz]

Jo CIMDA wrote:
If it helps, my dog has had joint taps done without a general anaesthetic or even a sedation. ....if Bossdin is a calm dog then maybe just using diazapam will be enough and a GA or sedation won't be necessary.
Good luck tomorrow.
Jo

Thanks Jo, I had already mentioned the diazapam to my vet when we were there on Wednesday. He just looked at me, raised his eyebrows and said,' do you really think Bossdin will let us do that' and of course I knew he was right, there was no way in hell we would be able to do it like that.

So, went yesterday for the procedure, my friend Ian (who Bossdin loves) came with me to help support me (to keep me calm) so I could keep Bossdin calm.

Vet came in and gave him an injection of a sedative, which we managed to do pretty well. Then we had to wait about half and hour until it worked. When Boss was very sleepy vet came back and said ok, time for me to go and he took the lead and Ian and I left. I was worried as I thought I should have still been the one to take him out the back to the operating room. He was going to be getting a full anesthetic as I had suspected.

Turns out, even totally dopey with the sedative he still tried to bite them when they tried to lift him up onto the operating table and they had to muzzle him. I was really disappointed to hear this. He is just so terrified of vets and I've done such a lot of work to try to get him over his fear..... but clearly not enough work.  I wish I had been allowed out the back as I could have lifted him up onto the table and we could have avoided this situation.

Vet rung me last night to tell me how they got on. They haven't got the results from the joint taps yet.  They didn't end up doing x-rays as vet said at that point he didn't think it would aid diagnosis. They manipulated his joints and his right front ankle has only 90% of the flexibility and movement it should have. There wasn't a lot of fluid in the joints but what they got they said looked ok. The swelling in his joints they think is bone related and they don't know why. They think it has been going on for a long time.

I had them do full blood tests etc and he told me on the phone (I've forgotten a lot of it and will get him to print it out for me next week) that his liver function and all that stuff looked good and normal but his white cell count was odd, as was his red cells. I remember he did say Bossdin didn't have enough red cells and could be anemic. I asked how can that happen and he said he didn't know. They want to repeat the blood tests in a week to 10 days to see if there is any change.

He then said he didn't think it was SLE. He said he wasn't sure yet what the problem was but whatever it is Boss will have to be on medication for a long time. He's still waiting for joint fluid results so that he can determine which medication.

On the positive side Bossdin coped well with the general and this morning is pretty much his usual self. I"m not allowed to let him off the lead at all. He is not allowed to run. I have no idea how he's going to cope with that.

Thanks everyone again for your support.

Dee

[Jo CIMDA]

Hi Dee

I'm so please yesterday went off ok and Boss is doing well today.  Thank goodness that is over with.  Clearly a GA was the best thing for Boss and I think it is my Katie's personallity that allowed the vet to do so much to her.  She is so very laid back. She doesn't like going to the vet but when she is in there she kisses him all over his face and neck.

I doubt his anaemia was too bad otherwise your vet would have acted and the white cells can be remarkable for different reasons.  So on the whole it was a good job done and you just have to wait for the results.

Jo

[Penel CIMDA moderator]

At least it's all done now Dee and you can stop worrying about that side of things.  Will be good to find out more results and hear the vets diagnosis.  I hope you have a restful weekend now.

[Deeinnz]

Thanks Jo and Penel,

Yip, just have to wait and see now....

[Deeinnz]

Results are back...... while the lab has told my vet there was "insufficient fluid to be able to carry out a full analysis" what they do say is  "No significant abnormalities" and "These findings make immune mediated disease very unlikely to be present Alistair (my vet) as there are very few neutrophils present. DJD couldn't be ruled out however".  Degenerative Joint Disease

So it appears it is as I suspected, Bossdin's lameness is due to basically arthritis ....... and he has been prescribed Carprieve tablets 50mg, one per day. I will be speaking to Alistair more about this tomorrow.

So from my perspective I think this is a good result as I"m assuming DJD is the lesser of two evils.   

[Penel CIMDA moderator]

That's good.  So what about Cartrophen is that an option for dogs with DJD?
http://www.viovet.co.uk/Prescription_Drugs-Prescription_Drugs_A_-_C-Cartrophen_Vet_Injection/c1_31_623/category.html
http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Arthropharm_%28Europe%29_Limited/Cartrophen_Vet_100mg_ml_Solution_for_Injection/-26936.html
http://www.fortehealthcare.com/Ireland/Ireland%20cartrophen/technical%20brochure.html

and also I know of an excellent joint supplement for dogs with advanced joint problems.
http://www.viovet.co.uk/p1256/Glyco-flex_III_Dog_Stage_3_-_Pot_of_90/product_info.html?osCsid=8ebitei5eai7hpi919s2orqf82

[Jo CIMDA]

Hi Dee

That is good news for Boss.  Penel has given some good links.  It's about managing it as best you can but at least he doesn't have to go on to high doses of preds.

Jo