CIMDA

Hi Jo,
Thank you very informative reply which has put everything in perspective namely that I will never get to the bottom of the actual cause of the AI Disease affecting my boys, it is just something they and I have to live with and manage as best we can.
Finn had a return of the Demodex just on his paws.  We tried antibiotics because an infection showed and Neem Oil.  Unfortunately he developed a liking for this and although it didn't do him any harm it didn't stay there long enough to be truly effective.  So I've had to resort to soaking his feet in Aludex every 5 to 7 days.  I finished one course but the vet found one mite so we're doing another round.  The Neem Oil is brilliant at getting rid of (and preventing) harvest mites and keeping lots of bugs at bay.
Apart from this all is good so we're pressing on and I'm doing everything I can think off to help him and Loki get off the steroids.  If anything else that can help comes your way I will love to hear about it.
Best wishes
Annie

Hi Jo,
Just been reading about Zeus and SRMA, looks like this AI is cropping up a lot more.  Fingers, and paws, crossed that he continues towards remission.
I have been researching a lot and asking questions and have found out quite a few things that you may be able to look at in more depth than I have access to.
Going back to when Finn and Loki were 9 and 8 weeks old respectively.  Fin had a very severe infestation of Giardia which took many months, and a new vet, to clear.  Loki had Giardia, campylobacter and cryptosporidium.  These parasites can damage the gut and lead to Leaky Gut, which may well be the case with my boys, which could have triggered an AI response.  Although SRMA is the result of a genetic fault on the immune system, it still needs a trigger to set it off.
Cryptosporidium, I have read, is caused by pups eating contaminated faeces and/or drinking contaminated water.
I must add that I could well be adding 2 and 2 and getting 5!!  I am not qualified to say that any of this is a certainty but the more I learn about their breeder and the fact that she will not have any contact with me since Loki's diagnosis does ring a few warning bells.
Also my boys are having problems coming off the steroids, both relapsing when a low, every other day, dose is reached.  Finn is now on 3 1/2 every other day and Loki on 4 every other day.
Keeping in mind what an Holistic vet said I.e a species appropriate diet is best I am now feeding Raw along with supplements to help reduce the damage the steroids are doing to Finn physically and Loki emotionally.  To help with the Leaky Gut (just in case) they are now having Bone Broth every day which is said to help heal the gut. There is no way of knowing for certain if this is the case but Bone Broth will only do them good anyway and is said to help maintain healthy joints, ligaments, tendons, muscles etc all of which can suffer as a result of long term steroid use.  Both boys have been on steroids since they were 6 months old - Finn is now 4 1/2 and Loki 2 years old.  I can see that poor Finn's joints are troublesome the worst being his left elbow with the dysplasia.  He did have Cartrophen injections but have had him on Riaflex Joint Plus and their New Zealand Green Lipped Mussel for some time and for the most part he can enjoy himself doing Hoopers and Rally O.  I stopped Loki's Agility for a while as he was so fast he wasn't listening and have been doing Hoopers (not as advanced as Finn) and RallyO and hopefully will start Agility again soon. The more he learns and does the happier he is, as I said before he should have been a working sheepdog. One more thing about Cryptosporidium - remembering the breeder told me that Loki would be no use to me as he had 'no drive'.  The symptom of Cryptosporidium are Lethargy and no interest in play and death!!
Makes ones head spin.
Annie x

Hi Jo
That makes sense as both boys had Lepto, Finn lepto 2 and Loki Lepto 4.
Will check out the web site you sent..
I didn't start really looking into the make up of vaccines until after Loki was diagnosed- it hit me like a steamroller- which is why I refused to have them piggy backed onto one another.  And yet it could well have been just the Lepto in both cases that did the deadly deed.
Something I will never be 100% certain about.  I even asked the nurse at the surgery who took over the vacccine procedure once the vet had examined the pups and given the first shot.  I got to know her quite well because of Finn and she said that in her 5 years there she had not known of a reaction to Lepto in any pup.  So I went ahead.  After Loki's diagnosis I learned that Lepto only lasts a matter of months anyway. Hey ho!  My boys won't be vaccinated again and there is no point in having them titre tested anyway as nothing can be done.   We wash them down after every run out in the fields, woods and parks in fact their paws get washed even it we have just gone around the roads where we live.  Gotta cover all bases to minimise any risk - as they say - every little helps!!
Vet phoned with CRP results - surprise - Finn's was 37 and Loki's 9 - the norm is 10 and under.  Shock at Finn's as everything appeared perfect.  Finn has to stay on 10mg pred a day for a while longer and Loki on 5 every other day until I speak with the vet on Wednesday.
Finn doesn't show any behavioural issues from the pred but Loki still does even at this level so I want to lower it as soon as possible. 
He was a star at agility on Saturday all thanks to a cardboard box with screwed up paper and a handful of tiny treats.  He was so busy foraging that he ignored all the goings on in the class until it was his turn and handled everything like a pro.  The trainer is keeping everything small and controlled so that he can safely enjoy himself - he's still only 17 months so no need to rush - although rush is his middle name!  He just does everything so easily he is quite an athletic pup so we have to save him from himself.
A friend mentioned that the pups from their bloodline are late maturing, another good reason not to push them. 
Just that one simple thing - the cardboard box - has made so much of a difference to me and the way I react to Loki's antics that there are hardly any incidents at all.  Smiley faces everywhere. Don't take my eyes off what's going on but no worries now.
I will pass on that link to a friend who has Finn's aunties and half sisters just for interest.  She has not had any AI problems with her girls.  As you first said I am just so unlucky - lightening can strike twice!!
Thank you again and again Jo

Annie

Hi Jo
Good point about the titre testing on puppies, I had forgotten about them still having immunity from their mother.  Good that the breeder is taking note though. 
I don't know if this still applies or even if it applies to all vacccine manufacturers but I did read that it was the liquid that the vaccines were mixed with i.e a mercury preservative that was the main cause of the problems, that and the fact that like babies vaccinations so many were in the same shot.  Can't remember where I read this but it popped up when I was reading about vaccines.
All good at the vet.  He had a good look at Finn's Demodex and said that he recommends holding off from giving Finn anything for the moment and to carry on with the neem baths and applications, as he is healthy and bouncy despite his relapse on Sunday. The brightness of his skin that appeared was probably due to his temperature going up and not the Demodex taking a greater hold which doesn't usually happen in such a short space of time but to contact him if any change. Good news.
Another Demodex product you mentioned Milbemycin Oxime (Interceptor) might well be better for my boys if needed, than the Sarolaner, as it is said to be better tolerated by Collies even those with the MDR1 Mutation. 
You are such a good source of information Jo - it is so good to be armed with alternatives to suggest to my vet.
As mentioned earlier Finn's Sunday relapse was so very different to his others.  Vet said this last one was a more 'normal' relapse and could well be that he is on his way to complete remission. Whoopee.  Great news and a long time coming.  Vet said that he had never seen a dog so ill with this as Finn has been.  The neurologist said the same. 
Vet explained that the CRP blood test shows much more that just inflammation as dogs can have a normal temperature but the C-Reactive Protein levels could still be raised.  So both boys were tested.  Glad I asked as that was puzzling me.
So pleased that you raise the questions for me to look into as it helps so much to have a greater understanding of what is going on. 
Fingers crossed for low CRP results so we can attempt lowering preds again.  Finn is staying on a slightly higher dose for the moment because of his relapse, Loki too as he relapse two weeks ago, but as you said this does happen but the future looks bright.  I have learned how to handle Loki's, not so good, behaviour and relax.  Now I know that it's not my fault I can do this and best of all it's working.  He, Loki, had a Hoopers lesson a couple of weeks ago we were split into two groups.  He was so well behaved with the other dogs even though a couple of times he ran off to join the more advanced class there was no aggressiveness just Natural exuberance and he came back to me immediately.  Big sigh of relief and happy smile.
Annie

Hi Jo,
Yes to the steroid reduction protocol, even though he has bounced right back and is his normal self again. I looked back on my 2017 calendar to what my vet said to do last July when Finn was ill and am following that regime.  I have booked an appointment for them both for tomorrow arvo and will suggest the Sarolaner, since Finn doesn't need a wormer such as Advocate I am sure it will be better for him. 
Loki's Demodex is just eyes and ears and not very much at all, nowhere near as bad as it was a few months ago. So might hold off anything for him but will have to be guided by my vet.
I do hope that he doesn't insist on a CRP blood test as the skin on Finn's neck looks inflamed.  From what I read the dark pink is from the Demodex.  It doesn't seem to bother him as the steroids are controlling that.  Unless, of course, he uses the blood sample to check for any other things.
Both Finn and Loki are negative for all Lungworms, didn't know there were so many different types!  Pleased I had it done anyway.
I have just seen a post by my boys breeder in the ISDS health Forum - she is now titre testing all her puppies before they are sold and has changed her advice regarding vaccinations.  Pity that wasn't done for my boys, all their suffering might well have been avoided as it could have been the vaccinations that triggered their SRMA - who knows?  I have read Dr Jean Dodds research into vaccinations and it seems that they are responsible for a lot of things not just AI diseases.
Thank goodness for the internet and all the information that can be found which has enabled me to understand more and be able to discuss things properly with my vet.
Best wishes
Annie

Hi Jo,
I am beginning to think that Finn's immune system is damaged beyond repair.  For no obvious reason that we can think of i.e ingesting something horrid Finn had a relapse last night and it took 25mg of pred to bring his temperature down to 38c, that was 12.30 last night. At six am his temp was still 38c and he's been bouncing around.  This time though there was no sickness, diarrhoea or refusal to eat or drink!  In the past i've had to physically hold him up and push the tabs down his throat, this time his head was up, ears pricked and he gobbled up the sausage with the pred in it. Quite confusing.  All of this doesn't help the recovery of his immune system and hence the Demodex.  Because he didn't appear to be totally recovered from his bout of sickness he had last July I got in touch with Canine Vitality and she sent me her Gut Buster tonic - the difference in his wellbeing is a joy to see - maybe it is helping in lots of ways.
Which brings me to the Demodex. If his immune system has been over surpressed maybe by being on steroids for so very long then he has no hope of controlling these mites himself, and since his immune system is attacking the good cells as well as the bad and needs to be dampened down is it wrong to try and strengthen it to handle the Demodex mites?  I've not had any luck so far in finding studies or reports on this particular question.
I've been reading up on Sarolaner, which you mentioned earlier, it seems a good fit for Finn if chemical intervention is needed, rather than the Advocate.  Thank you for telling me about this as I'd not heard of it and will talk to my vet during my boy's appointment this week.
It seems as if we are going round in circles with this SRMA, hence me seeking holistic advice to help the body as a whole to cope with this disease which cannot be cured.
One thing is certain though and that's the more I learn the less I know! 
This SRMA is certainly a very complex condition.
Best wishes
Annie

Hi Jo
Both Finn and Loki's Demodex don't appear to be getting worse, so am holding off chemicals but taking things day by day and have the Advocate ready in case I see even a little change.
On a different note i.e. worms including lungworm.  As I said some posts ago that I had used the link you suggested to Fenland Forager and started both boys on their Scram Powder (diatomaceous earth with wormwood and clove). Three months ago their test showed negative in all worms.  This time I wasn't going to do the lungworm as they were clear last time.  Thank goodness I spoke to wormcount.com because they advised having the lungworm test again as there had been a marked increase, countywide, in fox lungworm. I didn't know about this particular lungworm, so glad I phoned them as we take our boys out of our garden gate onto fields and woods where there are foxes, badgers, deer and rabbits - as well as lots of dog walkers some of whom do not pick up their own dog or dogs poo!
Both boy's wormcounts are clear and I should get the lungworm results today.  Thank you for that link.
I have been reading more about the not so common side effects of steroids i.e. other behaviour changes, the list includes excessive barking which I am working on.  At least his aggression to other dogs has now stopped since lowering his steroid dose.  Knowing why these things are happening is a great help to putting them right.
Thank you for all your help and direction.
Annie

Hi Jo
Thank you for the latest links.
I have read the one about Ivermectin and with regard to Finn it makes sense.  He was given Advocate from 9 weeks old until he was nearly 3 yrs old and was beginning to look and act very 'down' and out of sorts. No wonder his general health and vitality started to improve after I stopped using it. That was in March last year. Since this outbreak of Demodex has only recently appeared on him it just shows how long the drug stayed active in his body!  Particularly since he is now on a low level of pred.  Although since he had a relapse last July due to ingesting something and being very sick (literally) and had to have the steroids increased again this just could have kick started a whole chain of events. 
I am reading more on the leaky gut topic, from what I have read a raw food diet is the best way to go and since Gentle can be fed with raw food I can do this in very tiny amounts without any sudden drastic changes.  Nutrition by Nature look to be very good.  It seems that too much of the wrong type of fungus could also be contributing.  Fungus feeds on sugar, carbohydrates turn to sugar so vegetables especially the grains and root vegetable are out.  gentle contains potato, parsnips and rice so am asking about these.
I will definitely explore the other ways before considering Ivermectin and am now going to look at getting some Aludex to help with Finn's localised outbreak on his legs whilst I work on getting his system healthy.
Thank you again,
Annie

Hi Jo
The way you explain everything makes perfect sense and has taken quite a weight off my shoulders as I really took it to heart when the breeder insisted it was my fault that both my boys had SRMA.  Because of the timing of Loki's becoming ill it could well be that whatever he swallowed (we know it wasn't lead) May have caused a crisis in his stomach and gut and hence be the 'trigger' we will never know but.......
I have been reading up on diets for Demodex and raw is generally seen as the best with no yeast forming foods I.e grains and cereals, most vegetable and fruits with the exception of blue berries and goji berries.
Neither of my boys like chicken maybe that's because although they were weaned with good turkey mince and yogurt after this they were fed puppy kibble and thrown a chicken carcass! 
I will have another close look at their present freeze dried/cold pressed diet whilst I have enough left to change over to something else if there is anything that could promote yeast growth.  It is a grain free, fish product but does contain rice so will need to check if they way it is prepared will prevent this.
I shouldn't have mentioned the name of Loki's sire as he is a phenomenal dog who I watched in action before deciding to have one of his off spring.  His owner said that he sends him out on his own, he has a massive sheep farm, and he brings back many many hundreds of sheep.  Loki has inherited his single mindedness and work ethic!  We had an hour's agility lesson (puppy class) this morning, I am shattered but he was pulling me to go back for more!
I am using 50/50 neem oil with either coconut or wheatgerm oil as the Demodex is still localised but will only do this for a very short time and watch closely.  Both boys are on 2 1/2mg miss a day the 3 1/2mg
And so on and will be on this for a couple of months.  This as you say is a very low dose and if their immune systems are kicking in then hopefully the Demodex will not get any worse and maybe start to improve.  If it doesn't then I still have some Advocate that is within the useby date and I will talk to my vet and start their treatment.
I have read the links you sent regarding other products for Demodex but the tablet ones that have a side effect of sickness and diarrhoea I am sure will not be a good choice for my boys as whenever they have eaten something horrid they have sickness and/or diarrhoea followed by a relapse.  So your first suggestion of Advocate is probably the best given that athey are MDR1 n/n.  I will also ask my vet about Ivermectin liquid to put directly on the affected areas to kill the mites, I read about this, but never heard this before so will need advice before venturing there.
Although I tell myself - it is what it is - it hasn't been easy really believing it.  The more I speak with you the easier this becomes and for this I am eternally grateful.
Thank you so very much.
Annie x

Hi Jo,
Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, it is a lonely place having two collies with SRMA and no one has ever heard of it except you and my vet.
Ages ago I had an email chat with an holistic vet at the Cambridge Clinic, Christopher Day, and it was he who told me that the gut and immune system are closely linked and one of the best places to start was to get Finn back onto a raw diet and to improve the natural balance of his stomach and gut.  Unfortunately a raw diet didn't agree with Finn hence Gentle a raw, freeze dried, cold pressed food.  If he eats something he's not supposed to he is very sick indeed and relapses, this happened in July last year when he had been on 2.5 mg every other day for quite some time.  Sadly we had to put him back onto a higher dose. 6 months seems a long long time to reduce it. I would have continued with his 2.5mg-5mg missing a day in between had it not been for the outbreak of Demodex.  I have reduced the 5mg dose to
3 1\2mg and will monitor very carefully.  If this low dose doesn't suppress his immune system very much at all one would expect the Demodex to be controlled naturally?? 
After reading what you had been through and the fact that both my boys MDR1 are n/n I may well have to give them Advocate.  As Bravecto is given orally and sickness can be a side effect, this drug is a no no.  What I would like to find out is what is the minimum number of months Advocate should be given to control the Demodex?  I will keep a close eye on them and if it looks as if it is else where on their bodies I will have to start the Advocate, hence finding out what the minimum is.
I looked up the Aludex you suggested and again because of how it can affect the stomach if it is ingested I don't want to take the risk.  It seems that both boys have very very sensitive stomachs so I have to watch them all the time we are out and keep them occupied with games and playing as well as chasing and fetching their frisbees.  On lead is a big problem as they like to sniff everything.  I know this is good for a dogs well being but I mustn't take my eyes off them.
They are both on the same dosage of steroid regime now which, as you suggest and Michael Day advises, I will keep them on for a month, maybe two, before lowering again.  Fingers crossed.
You showed me the research that proved this A I Disease is because of a complex genetic fault on the immune system which needs a 'trigger' to activate it  I wish I knew what that trigger was in case it is my fault.  They both became ill at exactly 6 months of age.  Both had puppy vaccines but at different ages and different regime, even the Lepto was different.  Both Finn's parents were owned by the breeder, Loki's mother is (and is the daughter of Finn's father) but Loki's father is owned by a Trials Champion sheep farmer and he, Rosewood Will, won the 2016 One Man and his Dog Championship.  I thought I would get a perfectly healthy puppy.
I still wonder if the undentified object that Loki swallowed, probably on the Saturday, could have been the trigger.  It showed up on an x-ray on the Sunday and the first sign of SRMA appeared on the Monday morning.  The nurses at the referral centre were supposed to examine his poos to make sure it had been expelled and to give it to the neurologist. They didn't do this so I will never know what it was.
Do you have any idea what could trigger SRMA?
I tell myself 'it is what it is' but I still can't help wondering why?  And my poor Finn is still on steroids and he will be 4 years old on February 8th.  And we both know how damaging steroids are to every cell in the dogs body, but what else can we do?  The side effects of Cyclosporine are horrendous too - rock and a hard place comes to mind.
Thank you again for all your help Jo, you are a sanity saver. 

Hi Jo,
Thank you again so much for your support.  Since SRMA appears in lots of pedigree dogs I am very surprised that I have not met anyone else who is battling this at the level my boys are.  By all accounts most dogs are off the steroids after about six months.  It makes me wonder is my vet is being a little over cautious?  Although this raises questions in my mind what I have learned is that the more I learn-the less I know!
Finn, who will be 4 in February, is still on steroids: 2.5mg - miss a day - 5mg and so on. Now he has succumbed to Demodex and is losing the fur around his eyes and just below his rib cage.  He was on Advocate until a year ago which obviously kept it at bay.  The vet mentioned Bravecto but the side effects especially on the stomach (it's a tablet) I am sure would make Finn ill.  The more I read about these anti parasitic drugs the more I wish there was an alternative.  I am using Neem oil, very carefully, around both boys eyes.  Neem is said to kill the Demodex mite.  But I might just have to put Finn back on the Advocate for a couple of months as I have read that Demodex can be a very serious health risk. I know his MDR1 test is n/n but the fact that it invades all the cells of the dogs body makes me shudder.  He is doing so well in all other respects especially not showing any lameness in his elbows, and before Christmas he passed is Bronze, Silver and Gold KC Awards and then spent 90 minutes on an Hoopers trial day which he took to like a duck to water and was an absolute star.  Is all this because he is not ingesting any chemicals, I wonder? Which brings me to ask, have you come across anyone who's dog has been successfully treated by an Holistic or Homeopathic Vet for SRMA?
Does anyone you are talking to still have a dog on steroids for the same length of time as Finn?
The report you sent the link to says 10 to 28 days between changes in steroid dose which to me makes sense so long as I keep a close eye on my boys and check temperatures.  The CRP blood test my vet does shows if there is any inflammation - would'nt a rise in temperature also show this?  You said that you'd never heard of this blood test being done to determine steroid dose!  Which does make me wonder if I am doing the right thing by agreeing to this every time? 
Steroids suppresses the immune system but how can the immune system become strong if it is continuously suppressed?
Loads of questions here!  Once again I am truly thankful for any information you have.
With best wishes and happy New Year - Annie

Hi Jo.  I was hoping that Loki would be well on the way to coming off the steroids by now but one of his morning walks he ate something which set off a relapse and we had to give him 20mg of pred to get his temp under control.  His CRP was raised so we had to get him down to 5mg a day for a week and the 5mg every other day for 2 months.  After one week of this he suddenly became very vicious to other dogs and on one walk he attacked three dogs.  I thought this was due to the fact that earlier he had been attacked by a chihuahua which frightened him. Two days after this he went for a Labrador puppy the same colour as the chihuahua.  I put this down to his earlier experience and put him on lead whenever I thought a situation might arise.  After two weeks of this 5mg every other day regime I read a research paper that said that one of the, not so common, side effects of steroids is aggression and changes in behaviour and as he was still being a problem I reduced the dose to 5mg mis a day then 2.5mg and so on.  My vet did not want me to do this but I had to try somethings as the aggression was worryingly me and I blamed myself.  I read Dr Michael J Day report on steroid dose and reduction and took the chance.  Thankfully it has paid off and he is back to being his sweet little self again.  I don't know why my vet didn't tell me about this side effect as he saw how worried I was.  Finn has never ever showed this side effect so it was quite a shock.  Both boys are so different and the steroids have affected them in totally different ways.  I will take both to the vet for a CRP test in the middle of Jan and will have to explain my course of action.  The worry of Loki's aggressive behaviour was making me ill.  Thank you for the direction to Michael Day's paper I think it was there that I came across the list of these other side effects of steroids.  Fingers and paws crossed that all will be ok.

Hi Jo, good news, both Finn and Loki's results from the MDR1 tests are n/n which means that if absolutely necessary Bravecto or similar can be used for the Demodex.  Probably won't be necessary though as last weeks hair follicle test was clear.  Both Finn and Loki are now on 5mg prednisone every other day for the next 3 weeks then hopefully can be lowered again.  Fingers crossed that their immune systems are strengthening and steroids can be tapered right off.  It might be though, sadly, that one or both of them will need to be on a very low dose either 5mg or 2.5mg every other day for the rest of their lives.  I am keeping them on their supplements to minimise any side effects.  I have heard that the breeder is going to use one of Loki's sisters for breeding!!! Very irresponsible.  Anyhoo Thanks again for all your support and advice. Best wishes, Annie.

Hi Jo.
I will get the results of Finn and Loki's MDR1 test next Thursday but in the meantime have spoken with an Holistic Vet and will use natural internal and external treatment first for the Demodectic Mange.  I have not given Finn his Cyclosporine since he was sick the other week as he is on 15mg a day steroid dose.  Hopefully this can be reduced after a week.
Yes , you are right, from all the reports I have read taking care of the gut will assist the immune system and a raw food diet is best.
My vet does the CRP blood test as a guide rather than do repeated spinal taps.  It helps with Finn as he has been on steroids for such a very long time and may never come off them completely.  I do worry about what this drug is doing to him as I know that it can affect every cell in his body.  Once he is stable on a very low dose for a good length of time then I will take him to the holistic vet to see if we can help him This way.  Loki is now on 5mg every other day and I want to reduce this again after a week (two at the most) as I think he has been on them long enough but I have to be guided by my vet as too quick a reduction can cause a very serious response.  I will let you know the outcome of the MDR1 as this may answer questions about both my boys having SRMA and being at either end of the severity scale.  Advocate (Ivermectin) may well have had a hand in this as Finn was getting it until March this year and Loki only had 3 puppy doses.  Both of them then went over to Fenland Forager Scram.  Darren Gallagher mentioned that he sprinkles it on his dogs food every day as it is also a natural source of Calcium.  I also use his Flea/tick repellent product.  Thank you for that advice.
Annie x

Hi Jo, thank you,
I didn't come across either metronidazole cream or the Aludex when I was searching so will most definitely look at them now.
From what my vet says Fluralaner (Bravecto) is off-license here in the UK, but not in New Zealand. And because it works by paralysing the parasites nervous system I am hesitating on that one and will try anything and everything first. Keeping in mind, of course, that Demodectic Mange can become very serious indeed, as you have experienced.
Another treatment that comes up is Goodwinol Cream but seems to be only available in the U.S although it can be bought on Amazon (what can't!!) but need to be very careful of his eyes.  Hence I am very pleased that I contacted you and learned about the eyelash cream.
Let's hope I don't t have to resort to chemicals.
Have been wondering why Finn hasn't suffered the same outbreak - of course he has had Advocate until March this year when I switched to Fenland Forager products. Loki, on the other hand, had it only 3 times. So Finn had regular doses of ivermectin until then which probably kept the mites at bay but could well have contributed to his remaining so ill. Time will tell.
I will keep you posted with successes andfailures as this may benefit others.
Best wishes, Annie