CIMDA

Canine Immune Mediated Disease => Systemic / Inflammatory (AIHA, IMTP, Evans, SLE, IMPA, SRMA) => Topic started by: Tammie on February 02, 2013, 10:57:31 PM

Title: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on February 02, 2013, 10:57:31 PM
Three weeks ago, me and my three border collies, Riley, Hurley and Booty went to visit my mother's farm.  When we returned two days later, I noticed a slimy substance coming from one of Riley's eyes.  Trip to the vet revealed a bacterial infection that presented itself in his eyes.  Was sent home with Doxycyline and three different eye drops 2 times a day.   Went back for a check up, was taken off the Doxy but was told to continue the Eye drops.  Noticed a week later that he did not feel good.  Took him back, vet ran CBC, tick titers and xrays to reveal a possible auto immune disease.  Took him home with pred and doxy two times a day.  Went back three days later, getting better, reduce the pred to one time a day and stay on the doxy twice a day.  He got much better, for a couple of days, then noticed he was beginning to "crash".  Took him to the vet on Monday to reveal AIHI and IMT "Evans Syndrome".  He was losing it quick.  Tuesday numbers fell, Wednesday a blood transfusion, Thursday his numbers were up Platelets went from 79 to 91, Something went from an 18 to a 21 and Red Blood count from a 1.8 to a 2.15.  Friday, his counts went from 21% to 27%, his Red Blood Count went from 2.15 to 2.8.  His Reticulocyte went to 10%.  All is good.  He ate really good yesterday.  Today he is not eating, his platelets went to 100, dont know percentages but his Red Blood count went from 2.8 to 2.7.  I am very worried because I believe the transfusion is wearing off, he started Cytoxan on Wednesday also and today is his last dose for three days (the vet said she would up the cyclosporin slightly to accomodate not having the cytoxan) and I am terrified that the RBC is going to go down again!   Any advice on what to do or not to do?   I am desperate to hear from anyone as I am so worried about my baby!  I am trying to have faith but I am terrified right now.  Also, when he is trying to get up and walk around more but it scares me to death because neurologically he is totally unstable and falls down when trying to walk.  He is getting more steady by the day but I really need some re-assurance here!  I dont care if he is unstable forever as I will do whatever I need to do to help my baby!
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on February 03, 2013, 02:08:40 PM
Hi Tammie

I'm really sorry you and your boy are going through this.  One thing, is he on steroids (prednisolone)  as well as Cytoxan?  Preds' are the main stay of treatment in any of these autoimmune diseases, even if other cytotoxic drugs are used in combination, and steroids (preds') are the only drug that has a rapid onset of action. So if he is only on Cytoxan then I would mention it to your vet or get him referred to a vet specialist. Cyclophosphamide (Cytoxan) is not a commonly used drug but it is sometimes used in combination with preds.

It is not unusual for the levles to drop off following the initial transfusion and some dogs do have to have one, two or more transfusions.  Transfusions buy time for the treatment to work.  It takes about 5 days for the reticulocytes to migrate from the bone marrow to the circulation and transfusions support the dog during this time, but the medication has to be correct for this to happen.  Please look at the articles about IMHA and IMTP in the files, and  especially the immunosuppressive drug protocol by Michael J Day.  This is an excellent guide for owners and vets and Prof Day has given his permission for his protocol to be circulated. 

If his platelets drop very low  again there is a drug called Vincristine that you vet can give.  It is usually just a one off injection and it has the capacity to increase platelets very quickly.  At the moment, with a platelet count of 100,  he wouldn't need this. 

If he is on steroids then he needs something to protect his stomach from the excess acid that the steroids produce.

Don't worry about getting him up and walking.  He will feel very weak and it is probably better for him to rest as much as he can during this stage.  The reason why you think he is neurologically unstable is because he does not have enough red blood cells to carry sufficient oxygen to his brain, but this will get better as his red blood cell count (known as, and abbreviated to HCT or PVC) increases.

It is early days but if he were mine I would want him on prednisolone 1-2mg/kg/12 hrs starting at the lowest dose.

Fingers crossed. I know it is stressful but try to be strong for Riley.
Jo

Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on February 04, 2013, 02:26:05 PM
He is on Prednisone, Doxycycline, Cyclosporin, and finished the last of four days on Cytoxin on Friday.  Yesterday, he actually walked into the room by himself, was very alert, ate 10 oz of Honey Roasted Turkey (its all he seems to like right now).  His RBC went from a 2.29 to 3.02, reticulocytes are 587.7 Platelets are 119.  He had a transfusion on Wednesday so I am thinking that he is producing on his own now.  The BASO is the only normal reading - have no idea what that is but the levels that are really in the high range are starting to drop and the ones in the really low area are starting to raise.  I just hope he doesnt "crash" like he did last Sunday.  It was sooo scary. 

Thank you for the reply.  I really appreciate it.

Tamie
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on February 05, 2013, 02:10:00 PM
How exactly do you get the reticulocytes to mature to the RBC?   Any help with that would be great!

He may get to come home today.  Chemo starts again on Wednesday.

Tammie
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on February 06, 2013, 09:23:41 AM
Hi Tammy

The reticulocytes form in the bone marrow and after about 5 days they migrate to the blood circulation as immature red blood cells, and from there they mature until they die off and leave the body approximately 100-120 days later. That's the life of a red blood cell.

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on February 15, 2013, 09:03:12 PM
An update on Riley=

Had a scare Sunday when he would not eat.  Rushed him to the vet.  CBC came back good with the RBC being 4.1 and all the highs coming down and the lows going up toward normal range.  Reduced the prednisone to 20 mg in the morning and 10 at night.  He woke up the next morning and about ate us out of house and home.  Was perky and happy.   We have good days and bad days right now.  You never know how he is going to be from day to day and thats the scary part!.  Checkup yesterday revealed the reticulocytes down but the RBC was at 4.6 (5.6 is normal).  Keeping his meds the same this week.  I messed up last night and gave him his Cyclosporine 2 hours after his meal and he has not been perky today at all.  Called the doc- she said that if i didnt give it to him WITH food it would make him really nauseous. I did it again this morning before talking to the vet.  Hopefully he will perk up after the 12 hours it takes for this drug to calm down..... still have high hopes of recovery!  My normal routine is scary- wake up - see if he is wagging his tail as he is sleeping on the kitchen tile - next check his gums - next see if he will eat....its scary every day but it seems we are getting better. Stability is getting much better.  Just wanted to post an update.  LOVE MY RILEY!
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Penel CIMDA moderator on February 15, 2013, 09:38:02 PM
Stressful isn't it  :( but you're doing ok - keep going  :)
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on February 21, 2013, 02:47:03 PM
Totally stressed at this point!  His RBC last Tuesday was 4.64.  Went to Dr. this Tuesday and it is only up to 4.65 but the reticulocytes jumped up again which I thought were going down because of the RBC going up.  He has shown great jump in strength over the last week and a great appetite.  Yesterday was early release day at school and everybody knows that I have a sick baby here.  However, all the kids came to our house, knocking on the doors, practicing their flutes, going in and out etc.  I think it has us set back somewhat.  Riley seems to be down and out today.  He has his ears back and is not wagging his tail so much this morning.  Every day I wake up I pray that I see some little improvment but not seeing any today.  Is it typical to have up and down days?  His gums are pink but still it seems that something is wrong.  Hope today's rest helps him out!

Tammie
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Penel CIMDA moderator on February 21, 2013, 08:40:22 PM
Unfortunately yes it is quite usual to see up and down days.  Stress really must be kept to a minimum which is really hard in a busy household.  If you're at all worried always call and talk to your vet, or take him back to see the vet.
It's really good his appetite improved and he has seemed stronger though.
What medications is he on now?
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on February 22, 2013, 02:29:51 AM
His 8 am morning regimen is 20 mg Doxycycline, 20 mg Prednisone, 20 mg Pepcid and 100 mg Atopica cyclosporin.  At 8pm he has 20 mg Doxycycline, 10 mg Prednisone, 20 mg Pepcid and 100 mg Atopica cyclosporin.  He muscles have become very wasted from the prednisone but he is no longer bobbling or stumbling.  He can focus and catch his ball now but we dont throw it for him because we are afraid he may fall and hurt himself.  He is a frisbee dog and is totally obsessed with his frisbee.  It is very hard not to throw it for him but we know its best for right now.  He is like watching a baby taking his first steps again.  His old "totally focused" personality is coming back.  Yesterday I was walking him in the field (just for bathroom purposes) and he was trying to do the crawl that border collies do when they focus on cattle.  He hasnt been well enough to even be focused for some time so it is good to see that!    We hope that some day he will be well enough to ride the waves in the lake on our jet ski like he loves to do.  Do you ever hear of them making it all the way back like they were before?  Our doc seems to think that it will take time but that he should pull out of it.  Just so scary right now, you never know what the day will hold. He is eating around 20 oz of wet food mixed with 24 oz of kibble.  We have changed our 3 border collies over to Orijen grain free, all natural, no preservatives etc food in hopes that it may help restore his immune system.  We also are giving an herbal supplment by the name of Optimum Choices - other AIHA owner swear by it.  It is a blue algae concentrate.  He loves it and laps it up when I mix it with water.  Dont know if it actually helps or not but the testimonials seem to be good.   How do you know if he still has IMT along with the AIHA or not?
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Penel CIMDA moderator on February 22, 2013, 10:34:17 AM
It sounds like you're doing everything you can.  I know that collies do find it hard to relax too.  Orijen is a brilliant food.  Can you give it to him from a kong or something that will encourage him to lay down, but also use a little mental stimulation? maybe one of the Nina Ottoson puzzles would be good for him?
I don't know about the Algae supplement but will try to read more about it.
When they test his blood they can tell whether his blood has clotting cells in it, as well as how much red blood cells there are.
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on February 23, 2013, 11:03:20 AM
I think Rilely is doing well.  Penel has said it all.  the lab will be looking at the platelets and the red blood cells.

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on February 25, 2013, 02:24:01 PM
He has had more zest in the past 3 days than ever.  However, I noticed last night that the ooze out of his eye is back.  Going to the vet again this morning as his immune system is suppressed and I am scared to death of him going down again.  I am taking the other two collies also so she can see if they have something that is transfering between them.  Also,  I have read tons of information lately regarding Evans, IMTP and AIHA or IMHA.  Everything I read says it is rare HOWEVER, upon speaking with my vet, she says she sees probably at least 5 new cases a week.  Also, I received a call from a friend of mine last night - she has been praying for Riley to recover.  She noticed lethargy in her 10 year old Shit Zhu last night and rushed him to a different hospital - diagnosed with IMHA with a RBC of 1.5 and  a HCT of 12%.  Since I have been talking about Riley I have heard tons of reports of this and it seems to be somewhat of an epidemic.  Even the other hospital reported at least 4 new cases last week.  Is there some type of animal Center for Disease Control that you know of? Thank you so much.
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on February 25, 2013, 07:37:19 PM
Hi

Autoimmune disease is rare in the general population but it is not so rare within pedigree breeds that have shown to have a genetic predisposition to autoimmunity.  Check out this link.  It is a joint venture between Liverpool University and Manchester University and they collect DNA from companion animals with certain inherited diseases.  IMTP and AIHA are listed.

http://www.liv.ac.uk/dna_archive_for_companion_animals/disease.htm

I can't remember if Riley is on antibiotics but it is wise to have them on a broad spectrum AB when they are on the high doses of preds.

Triggers for AI diesase should be limited as much as possible too.

I hope he gets on well at the vet.

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on February 25, 2013, 07:46:56 PM
He actually had an awesome checkup today.  The oozing from his eye is totally unrelated to the prior issue of Uveitis before.  Today she said that it was from pollen and allergies (Kentucky is the worst state in the US for exterior allergies due to its topography being shaped like a bowl)  His numbers are up to a 4.9 RBC, platelets are at 384 and HCT is at 39.8.  She is reducing the pred to 10 mg am and 10 mg pm.  Still the same on the Atopica and the doxycyline.  I asked if he is not considered Evans anymore because his platelets are up still but she said he still does have IMT but is "working through it".  I swear my vet is amazing.  I love her for all the hard work she had done with studying the protocols of this disease and her knowledge.  She did a CBC way back when his eye was just oozing and said that everything was in the normal range but low normal range and that is when she started investigating other things, like underlying tumors, titers, etc to rule out underlying causes.  I am so thankful that my baby is getting close to being normal.  I am hoping with the pred reduction that some of his muscles in his hind quarters start to build up again.  They were huge - he is a frisbee dog.  I am hoping he gets back to almost new again soon.  I really dont know what I would do without this forum.  My vet even looks at it for info since I told her about it.  You guys are incredible!  Thank you so much for letting us know that there IS hope!  I am hoping to be a success story!

Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Penel CIMDA moderator on February 26, 2013, 09:44:02 AM
Your vet sounds lovely, and is to be commended for being so open minded and constantly seeking out new information - whether or not that is "only" from anecdotal evidence like here on CIMDA from owners like you, or from scientific studies.  All of it is important and all of it adds to their knowledge, which of course means they can help more dogs - which is what we all want  :)

I'm so pleased the check up went well.

I remember back when my first dog was diagnosed with SLE, I didn't know anyone else whose dog had had an autoimmune/immune mediated disease.  Then I met Jo, and we started the forum, and everything changed.  Since then we have been able to bring together so many owners.  It helps just to know you're not the only person going through this.
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on February 26, 2013, 11:41:21 AM
That's fantastic news - and you are very lucky to have a vet who is open minded.  Lucky you!

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on February 26, 2013, 02:13:18 PM
I am very nervous with reducing his prednisone today to 10mg am and 10mg pm.  Today he is not being as chipper as he has been in the past few days.  I guess its one of those "down" days.  I would rather take it down to 12.5 in am and 12.5 at night but the doc knows best.  Every time he doesnt just gobble up his food I worry.  Thanks for your support!
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: shawkyelisabeth on February 27, 2013, 12:38:15 AM
Tammie, be patient..it s a long way to go but you are on the right path with your vet and Jo s and Paenel s advice ,...they ve helped so may owners and I am sure your furbaby will make it and achieve remission. Reducing preds is always worrysome, take it very slowly  and be confident and dont worry when your dog is not moving around as much as he used to..he is needing all his energy for recovery!
Keeping fingers crossed  and look forward to hear good news..
Elisabeth with Cecil and her late soulmate Stella
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on February 27, 2013, 09:27:44 AM
Hi Tammie

I can't remember Riley's drug regime up to now so please check it against the Michael J Day's drug protocol in the files and use this as a guide.  Reducing the preds is always an anxious time but it takes as much bravery to lower the preds at the right time as it does to initially put the dog on very high doses of pred, and both stages are essential to a successful drug regime however, lowering the dose too early or by too much can lead to a relapse.

Fingers crossed.

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on February 27, 2013, 02:45:51 PM
The first two weeks 100 mg Atopica, 100 Mg doxy, 20 mg Pred, 20 mg Pepcid all twice a day  1 /28 to 2/10

He wouldnt eat so on 2/10 she lowered only the pred to 20mg am and 10mg pm.

02/25 lowered only the pred to 10mg am and 10 mg pm


About 14 days between lowering each time.  She plans on lowering the Cyclosporine next Tuesday depending on his blood counts.    He weighs 46 lbs now.

Is there any drug protocol for the cyclosporin?



Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on February 28, 2013, 01:48:20 PM
Quote from: Tammie on February 27, 2013, 02:45:51 PM
The first two weeks 100 mg Atopica, 100 Mg doxy, 20 mg Pred, 20 mg Pepcid all twice a day  1 /28 to 2/10

He wouldnt eat so on 2/10 she lowered only the pred to 20mg am and 10mg pm.

02/25 lowered only the pred to 10mg am and 10 mg pm


About 14 days between lowering each time.  She plans on lowering the Cyclosporine next Tuesday depending on his blood counts.    He weighs 46 lbs now.

Is there any drug protocol for the cyclosporin?

Hi Tammie

I'm surprised the vet lowered the preds when Riley wouldn't eat.  Normally it is the preds that make them eat and it's the cyclosporin that can make them feel nauseous and off their food.

A dose of prednisolone 1mg/kg/12 hrs will generally bring an immune mediated disease under control.  Sometimes the clinician will decide to use another drug in combination with prednisolone and this is commonly azathioprine or cyclosporin  - and your vet has decided to use cyclosporin.  The dose for cyclosporin varies depending on which disease is being treated 

As for a drug protocol for cyclosporin.  This is more complicated because individual dogs process cyclosporin at different rates and also some drugs can enhance its effect.  This is why in the past vets have had to check blood levels of cyclosporin to see if the dose is correct for that dog.  It is not done so much now.

Depending on the disease being treated, starting doses range from 2-5mg/kg12hrs right up to 15-30mg/kg daily and as far a I am aware treatment is then "Tapered to every other day and then 2 times a week until minimum frequency is reached that will maintain the desired therapeutic effect" (Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook).

Personally, I prefer the traditional treatment with immunosuppressive doses of steroids, and only if that does not bring results then add a 'combination' drug.  I have known more dogs suffer from nausea with cyclosporin than I have with preds or azathioprine but very often when a dog is on immunosuppressive treatment they pick up an infection and this can make them feel depressed and 'down'.

I hope he is brighter today.

Jo




46lb is as good as  21 kg.
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on March 06, 2013, 02:34:28 PM
Fabulous checkup today!  Almost everything in his CBC is normal.  His HCT is 42.6% which is normal.  RBC went from 4.9 to 5.2.  Reticulocytes still high but she said its ok.  Platelets are up from 384 to 399.  Neutrophyls a little high still but coming down each week.  She reduced the prednisone again to 5mg every 12 hrs.  I dont like that at all but she says that he should be fine and recheck next week.  Received a call later in the afternoon with news of liver enzymes being 1000.  She added a drug named Denamarin.  I purchased milk thistle yesterday to add to the Denamain.  I am hesitant about the pred reduction but I guess I just have to trust her.  What's your thoughts? 
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on March 07, 2013, 08:07:05 AM
Hi Tammie

Great news!  Don't worry about the liver enzymes.  It is to be expected and they can go a lot higher than that.  Denamarin and Milk thistle are good supplements.

Your vet is using cyclosporin as the primary drug and obviously reducing the preds  first.  It is her choice and just a different drug regime.  How long has Riley been on treatment? 

The reticulocytes should reflect the level of anaemia, meaning if the dog is anaemic the retic's should be high and as the anaemia reduces the retic's also reduce.  I don't know why Riley's reticulocytes are high.

The results are good.
Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on March 07, 2013, 03:38:56 PM
His last blood results on Tuesday were 206.7 which is down from last week at 224.4.   Maybe because his blood marrow is still trying to get his RBC up to 5.6???  He has been on the Cyclosporin since 01/28/2013.   You guys are life savers!  Just thought I would give a great big THANK YOU to this website and all the info on it.  Since she reduced the Pred, Riley was actually able to HIKE his leg today!  Woo Hoo! without wobbling!
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on March 07, 2013, 05:44:01 PM
That's great news and it is so good to read your positivity.  It is such a wonderful feeling when they start to improve and show signs of getting back to 'normal'.

On behalf of Penel and me; and all those who contribute, thank you for the compliment about the website. 

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on March 07, 2013, 06:02:26 PM
I would love to start a research foundation for AIHA, IMTP and Evans!  Or get involved with something on a bigger scale.

Tam
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on March 08, 2013, 02:44:15 PM
Yes, Tam DNA tests are desperately needed to enable breeders to select breeding dogs from 'clear' stock, and a foundation is a lovely thought.   Some work has been done but unfortunately, despite mapping the canine genome, the information needed to develop DNA tests has proved to be very illusive.  Many years ago a scientist told me that now they have mapped the canine genome they would have DNA tests for autoimmune diseases within a couple of years but, sadly, this has not been the case.

Identifying the genes responsible for AI diseases is difficult because most certainly there will be many genes involved (polygenic) and the mode of inheritance wouldn't necessarily be the same in different breeds.

Manchester and Liverpool Universities have a collaborative DNA archive.  They are collecting DNA from companion animals  who have been definitively diagnosed with a disease on their list and AIHA is one of them. Check out these links:

http://www.liv.ac.uk/dna_archive_for_companion_animals/information.htm
http://www.liv.ac.uk/dna_archive_for_companion_animals/disease.htm

CIGMR (Centre for Integrated Genomic Medical Research) had some funding from the EU for research but unfortunately that has finished now.  I am hopeful that DNA tests will eventually be found but I don't think anyone thought it would be a difficult as this.

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on March 08, 2013, 02:51:48 PM
I have already investigated the links you sent.  Unfortunately, they are not open to canines outside of the UK.  We are in the USA.  I have been communicating with a leading specialist across the country by the name of Dr. Jean Dodds who has some wonderful insight on treatment, diets, thyroid and meds. 
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on March 08, 2013, 02:59:09 PM
Hi Tam

I'm sorry,  didn't know you were in the US.  Jean is great.  UC Davis have done a lot of DNA collection.  I don't know if they are collecting for AIHA but it might be worth checking it out even if Riley's DNA is stored in an archive for a future date.   I wish you luck and if you do find somewhere to send DNA to please let us know.

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on March 19, 2013, 03:53:07 PM
UPDATE ON RILEY! 

Went for our weekly checkup.  His HCT is 45.3%, RBC is 5.78% and platelets are 445.  We have been on only 5 mg Prednisone BID, 50 MG Cyclosporin BID, 20 mg Pepcid, Denamarin (large) once a day, and 20g florasomething for his stools and also to help his liver.  So,  I guess its looking up for us.  We go back again next week, she is going to try to cut the meds again!   Yahoo!  Riley is actually playing tug of war with this brother and jumping onto the porch now.  I am so grateful for this website or I would have given up hope!!  Thanks you guys!
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Penel CIMDA moderator on March 20, 2013, 03:44:06 PM
I'm so pleased for you, this is all great news.  Happy days.  :)
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: shawkyelisabeth on March 21, 2013, 03:50:21 PM
Great news Tamie, Riley will be a success story like many CIMDA dogs!  Happy for you that things have turned out so well, keep on going...
Good luck and best of times with your fur baby..
Elisabeth with Cecil and her late soulmate Stella
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on March 21, 2013, 05:09:17 PM
Fantastic news.  It is such a long slog and you have to have patience like you have never had before, but it has paid off!

Well done

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on March 21, 2013, 05:44:39 PM
I was watching a video on my phone with Riley running as fast as lightning through my field.  It made me sad because I dont know if we will ever get back there again.  Do you think it is to early for physical rehab?
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on March 22, 2013, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: Tammie on March 21, 2013, 05:44:39 PM
I was watching a video on my phone with Riley running as fast as lightning through my field.  It made me sad because I dont know if we will ever get back there again.  Do you think it is to early for physical rehab?

Don't be sad Tammy.  Riley will get back to his old self but you have to give him time.  The drugs take their toll but as you slowly reduce them he will return to his previously fit and active self.  As the presence of drugs in his body diminish his body will repair itself without any specific rehab and at the right pace for him.  Let him do this naturally and when he is off medication altogether you can step up the exercise.  As a result of the drugs his body, especially his muscles and ligaments, have been through a lot.  In a few months time you will see such a difference.

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on March 22, 2013, 01:15:09 PM
That is awesome.  Thanks for the reassurance.
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: shawkyelisabeth on March 22, 2013, 05:43:26 PM
Riley will do well and be back to his normal self,just give him time and be patient.
Good luck!
Elisabeth
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on April 15, 2013, 02:22:30 PM
Last Tuesday, we had an awesome checkup.  Riley's balance and energy levels are fantastic! RBC 6.3, HCT 47.9%,  Plateletes 401 - which dropped from 426 but still in the normal range, WBC up to 15.03 from 10.23 but still in the normal range.  I expressed some concernes to my vet about the WBC going up and platelets falling a little but she said it was all still in the normal range and that we really needed to wean off meds now.  Dropped the Atopica to 25mg BID and Pred to 10 mg every other day- 5mg in am and 5mg in pm.  Had an awesome weekend- it was beautiful outside.  Riley played with the kids all day and was even back to his normal "herding" self by biting trying to get the other dog's feet while running.  He rolled a couple of times due to him running too fast and not quite having all of his muscles back.  Everything seemed to be normal, though.  Let him out this morning to go potty and when he came back in, I noticed the other two border collies sniffing his nose.  Well, I thought he may have gotten into some chips that the kids may have spilled in the yard and that the other dogs were smelling the chips on him.  Turns out that he has a steady dripping of blood in his left nostril.  My husband has rushed him to the vet this morning for a complete look over.  I am SOOOO worried!  I wish my baby was all well again!

Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on April 15, 2013, 02:57:50 PM
How disappointing Tammie, but it may not be a relapse.  It is more common for blood to come from both nostrils if a dog has IMTP and not just one of them.  I'm sure they will do blood tests and you will know soon.  Try to stay positive.

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on April 15, 2013, 03:14:54 PM
The vet is keeping him.  They said they see a growth in his left nostril.  They are going to sedate him and examine the swelling and knot inside his left nostril.  If it is a growth, they will biopsy it.   Oh my.....I am sick to my stomach!

Could this possibly be pemphigus?  Could this be the cause of this AIHA and IMTP?

OK Just found out it is a small pea sized nodule on close to the opening of the nose.  Bleeding is not coming from higher up.  It is biopsied and they are sending us home with anti biotics.  Hopefully its a side effect of the AIHA or something.  I dont know. Im lost at this point.

Just read a bunch of info on the oh so dependable internet and by the pictures found, it looks like it could be SLE.  Are all of these things related?  What do you suggest at this point?  I am feeding the highest quality food that I can right now (Orijen- $77.00 for a 28 lb bag), using milk thistle to help his liver get cleaned out, rubbing organic cold pressed coconut oil on his sores on his elbows and his REALLY dry cracked nose.  Any advice at this point would be helpful.  Is the prognosis for SLE as good as he had progressed to this point?  I am totally overwhelmed right now.
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on April 16, 2013, 08:15:05 AM
Hi Tammie

Don't panic.  I know it is very difficult not to jump to the worst conclusion but if he has SLE he would be unwell in other ways.  Pemphigus would be showing differently too. If it was an AI problem it is more likely he would have several lumps and lesions etc. The small growth may be nothing, so wait for the results to come back. 

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: gschellinger on April 16, 2013, 01:47:26 PM
Best wishes Tammi. Keep us updated.
gail
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: shawkyelisabeth on April 18, 2013, 12:39:09 AM
Hi Tamie, Most probably the nose bleeding is just a little blip.. My Stella had the same bleeding only from one nostril during her pred treatment, we could not find any plausible cause for it  and were very worried and it went away all by itself..maybe it is some kind of a side effect..
Keeping fingers and paws crossed that there is good news..
All the best
Elisabeth
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on April 18, 2013, 09:59:34 PM
Im trying my best but his left nostril all of the sudden had a small red bump at the end on the inside.  What is really freaking me out is that the very beginning of all of this was Uveitis in the eye on the same side, which led her to a CBC and she hinted it may be an autoimmune problem even though he had not "crashed" yet.  Last year we went in for a "reverse sneeze" in October.  Then bloody mucus a few weeks ago and the Dr looked at the same eye and said it was unrelated but it was conjunctivitis.  Now this.   It all has me so worried that I believe I need meds.  He is acting fine and like I posted before, his bloodwork is all back in the normal range now except for the EOS whatever that is. If it were cancer, wouldnt the WBC count be way up?  HELP!!!!
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on April 19, 2013, 10:17:38 AM
Hi Tammie

If his bloods are all back in the normal range then it is unlikely to be an AI relapse. EOS is an abbreviation for 'eosinophils', which is a white blood cell. Raised EOS can be a response to inflamation, which could be a hypersensitivity or a response to a parasite.  I'm not very familiar with the eosinophillic inflammatory response but in some cases it can cause thick bloody mucus in the nasal passages etc.  Wait for the biopsy result to come back and try not to panic at this stage  I know it's not easy.

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on April 19, 2013, 04:55:56 PM
I am trying my best to keep my faith and turn it all over into God's hands. but it is soooo hard to do.  I'd like to say thank you very much for all your responses and thoughts!
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: gschellinger on April 19, 2013, 09:11:56 PM
Thinking of you and your dog. Lola had terrible sinus problems as well as reverse sneezing for 1 1/2 years. No cancer. It went undiagnosed. I hope you get some good news. Let the thoughts come and give them permission to leave. Nothing will change what it is, but there may be much you can do to make it better :)
g.
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on April 23, 2013, 07:48:51 PM
Still no results.  Checkup reveals nose healing.  CBC shows elevated mono (1.23), MCV (75.4)and high platelets (500L/pL).  RBC fell from 6.07 to 5.7 but still in normal range HCT fell from 45.8 to 43% but still in normal range.  Dr. reduced meds to the following protocol (dropping one 25mg dose of Atopica).

25mg Atopica per day
Denamarin large one per day
Flagyl twice a day (25mg or 250mg - cant read it)
Prednisone 10 mg every other day
Doxycycline (for the nose biopsy)
Keflex 3 times a day (for the nose biopsy)
Milk thistle drops twice a day

My baby is not eating well today and seems to be not so chipper.  This is the first time since he has been home from the hospital that he has not totally gobbled up his food.   I am feeding Orijen adult and supplementing with 1 package of Nutrish wet food.  I am also giving organic coconut oil twice daily for the EFAs.  My question is this...if he just happens to have SLE, would it be treated the same way?
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on April 23, 2013, 10:18:39 PM
Hi Tammie

The blood results look ok, so I doubt he has SLE, or at least he is not having a relapse of Evan's syndrome.  To answer your question if SLE  is treated the same way, it is treated with immunosuppressive drug therapy, the same as Riley would have been treated initially.

I wonder why he has gone off his food?  Does he have a high temperature? Perhaps the antibiotics are making him feel nauseous.  Could you leave off the oil in his food for a few days?

I hope he is feeling better tomorrow.

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on April 23, 2013, 10:22:04 PM
I will definitely try that.  I checked his temp and it is fine.  He was eating grass earlier in the day.  I dont know whether to let him eat it or not.  Thank you for all your help.  He seems perky and sassy still but with what he has, you never know what the next day may hold!  I posted a pic of him on my earlier post.
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on April 24, 2013, 10:23:38 AM
Quote from: Tammie on April 23, 2013, 07:48:51 PM
Still no results.  Checkup reveals nose healing.  CBC shows elevated mono (1.23), MCV (75.4)and high platelets (500L/pL).  RBC fell from 6.07 to 5.7 but still in normal range HCT fell from 45.8 to 43% but still in normal range.  Dr. reduced meds to the following protocol (dropping one 25mg dose of Atopica).

25mg Atopica per day
Denamarin large one per day
Flagyl twice a day (25mg or 250mg - cant read it)
Prednisone 10 mg every other day
Doxycycline (for the nose biopsy)
Keflex 3 times a day (for the nose biopsy)
Milk thistle drops twice a day

My baby is not eating well today and seems to be not so chipper.  This is the first time since he has been home from the hospital that he has not totally gobbled up his food.   I am feeding Orijen adult and supplementing with 1 package of Nutrish wet food.  I am also giving organic coconut oil twice daily for the EFAs.  My question is this...if he just happens to have SLE, would it be treated the same way?

Hi Tammie

Do you know why Riley is on three antibiotics?  Has he been on Flagyl for a long time?  If this is the list of all his drugs I don't see an antacid.  You say he is eating grass so I wonder if he has an upset tummy, and I wouldn't be surprised with all the drugs he is on.  You might try giving him a Ranitidine (Zantac) 2mg/kg/3 times a day (BSAVA Small Animal Formulary).  This is reduce any excess acid and hopefully make him feel better.  Alternatively if Riley was on a gastroprotectant in the early days you could put him back on that for a while. It is worth a try.

I couldn't see his picture.

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on April 24, 2013, 02:01:59 PM
I did forget to put the Pepcid on that list.  Hes has been on Flagyl for a couple of months.   Is this an antibiotic?  I thought it was for liver support and to prevent loose stools.  The vet called me last night at 9pm.   The biopsy that was taken showed no signs of auto immune causes for the ulcer and no cancer. The edges of the ulcer did show a large amount of pollen and fungal spores.  They have sent the fungal spores off to determine which type of spores they are.  We went to our lakehouse a couple of weeks ago and it had not been used for 7 months.  Evidently the heater had failed during the winter (we should have kept a closer look on things down there) and there was tons of white stuff (Im assuming it was some type of fungus, mold or mildew).  I cleaned up as much as I could and turned in for the night.  Woke up at 3am coughing due to all the stuff in the house.  I cleaned the rest of the house, wiped everything down and steam cleaned all upholstry in the place.  I am thinking this may have been the culprit but I will know when the test results come back for that.  I told my husband it would be a miracle if none of us ended up sick from all of that!  Definitely going to keep a closer look on things BEFORE exposure now.
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on April 24, 2013, 02:09:57 PM
Three pics of my baby.  His nose was sooo pink now its almost all black!
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Catherine on April 24, 2013, 05:00:33 PM
>>>>Hes has been on Flagyl for a couple of months.   Is this an antibiotic? <<<<

Yes it is an antibiotic. Although it is quite an efficient medication it can have some serious side effects especially in elderly dogs. Do you know why Riley has been given Flagyl? It may be an idea to ask your vet and find out whether he really needs to be on it still. There are other things for liver support with less potential side effects and continous loose stools should always be investigated. Perhaps the Flagyl was orginally given for a bacterial infection in the gut?
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on April 24, 2013, 06:12:22 PM
Made a call to the vet and left her a message requesting the Flagyl to be removed from his regimen.  His stools are great and I really dont think its necessary right now.  Thank you!
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on April 24, 2013, 10:30:47 PM
Hi Tammy

He is soooo lovely!!!! It is great to see pictures so we can put names to noses and paws. 

You have good news about the biopsy result and also it seems you can put some sense to why the ulcer may have formed.  It always makes me feel better when I know the reason why something happened.  I think I can deal with it better.

Flagyl (metronidazole) is a good antibiotic and is effective against many infections of the gut and it also treats protozoal infections such as giardia.  It is not a liver support but they do use it in a condition called hepatic encephalopathy whereby bacteria and toxins in the gut can cause central nervous system problems. Adverse effects are uncommon but long term use can cause neurological signs, but these quickly subside and the dog returns to normal soon after the drug has been stopped.    Don't be put off using it in the future but if he doesn't need it then don't give it to him.  It is always handy to have in or to take away with you on holiday - just in case.

I'm so pleased the biopsy results are good.  You must feel so much happier now.  I hope he picks up and is much brighter tomorrow

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Catherine on April 25, 2013, 04:50:33 PM
>>>>Adverse effects are uncommon but long term use can cause neurological signs, but these quickly subside and the dog returns to normal soon after the drug has been stopped. Don't be put off using it in the future but if he doesn't need it then don't give it to him. It is always handy to have in or to take away with you on holiday - just in case.<<<<

I am afraid I am going to disagree a bit with you on this, Jo  :) partly because of my own experience with one of my dogs having Flagyl but also with my friend's dog having it as well. My dog had had a course (about 10 days)  of Flagyl twice before with no problems, but the third time she was prescribed it, she started having neurological problems and could not stand up. My vet did not think the Flagyl was causing it (!) but I was so shocked I stopped the tablets and my dog  returned to normal. My friend's dog had been having Flagyl for a few months, then one day her dog  started having neurological problems and collapsed. She rushed the dog to the vets and the dog was put to sleep  :(  The sad thing is, the episode with my dog had happened a few months previously and I had said to my friend about the Flagyl but the vet had told her it was okay........

So whilst, it could be that the dog will return to normal soon after stopping the drug, it is possible that damage can already be done before any symptoms show; also any symptoms that do show can be put down to something else and the vet says the Flagyl is not the problem, so the Flagyl is continued, (as in my dog's case but I chose to stop it anyway). Or unfortunately, the dog does have some adverse reaction, but the owner and the vet refuse to link the problem to Flagyl and the dog is euthanized.

We all can have different experiences and opinions with medication, but I will still see Flagyl as one of those drugs that I would only give to my dogs, only, if nothing else could be used and even then I would cease giving it as soon as the problem had cleared up.
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on April 26, 2013, 01:12:08 PM

I am afraid I am going to disagree a bit with you on this, Jo  partly because of my own experience with one of my dogs having Flagyl but also with my friend's dog having it as well. My dog had had a course (about 10 days)  of Flagyl twice before with no problems, but the third time she was prescribed it, she started having neurological problems and could not stand up. My vet did not think the Flagyl was causing it (!) but I was so shocked I stopped the tablets and my dog  returned to normal. My friend's dog had been having Flagyl for a few months, then one day her dog  started having neurological problems and collapsed. She rushed the dog to the vets and the dog was put to sleep    The sad thing is, the episode with my dog had happened a few months previously and I had said to my friend about the Flagyl but the vet had told her it was okay........


Hi Catherine

I'm happy for us all to share our experiences 'cos that is how we learn, so I don't mind at all if you don't agree.  We have discussed your friend's dog previously and I think the vet was wrong to suggest the owner put the dog to sleep and I believe he was just looking at 'an old dog with neurological problems' and thought it was time to call it a day.  My Roly was on metronidazole (Flagyl) for months too and one day I noticed he had neurological signs (nystagmus - flickering of the eyes - head tilt, and he couldn't walk properly etc.)  I stopped the drug and very shortly after he returned to normal.  He was 15 at the time.  Had I taken him to your friend's vet who knows he may have wanted to put him to sleep too. The neurological side effects of chronic therapy with metronidazole is well documented and your friend's vet was wrong to say that Flagly was okay in that respect.  Some vets will be worried the owner will blame the vet if their animal shows a side effect to a drug. 

All drugs have the potential to produce side effects in some individuals but we mustn't let the potential 'down side' outweigh the potential benefits.  Look at patients who have to have chemotherapy - it cures the cancer but it can, and does, cause side effects.  Not all side effects are permanent though. We should all make ourselves aware of the potential side effects of a particular drug being used and if you see the signs then call your vet and the drug can be stopped or the dose reduced (you NEVER stop steroids. Drugs like prednisolone MUST be weaned down). 

Here's a quote from Plums Veterinary Drug Handbook:

Metronidazole:Overdose/acute toxicity
"..........If acute toxicity is seen after chronic therapy, the drug should be discontinued and the patient treated supportively and symptomatically.  Neurologic symptoms may require several days before showing signs of resolving."

It is such a shame that your friend's vet didn't give the dog a few days to see if the neurological symptoms resolved.  I believe there are very few drugs that cause permanent adverse effects.  Most adverse effects can be resolved after disciontinuing the drug.  The exception to this are drugs that have the ability to change/destroy cells.  Look at the dreadful side effects of steroids but most, if not all,  resolve when the steroids are stopped or the dose is low.
Also, the adverse effects of chronic use of some drugs can be very different to a short course.

Our personal experiences are bound to affect our opinion of a drug, but that doesn't change the value of a drug if used correctly and on the right individual.  Collie dogs can't take Ivermectin but so many other breeds can and it effectively treats demodex.  My Katie is being treated with Vetoryl for Cushing's.  The drug is controling the Cushing's but it has caused dreadful inflammation of her joints and she walks very badly.  Last year, following her season, she had an 'Addisonian crash' and I took her off Vetoryl four months and low and behold her joints returned to normal.  Unfortunately I had to put her back on Vetoryl because her Cushing's got very bad again -  and her joint problem has returned.  We are about to change the drug to see if we can control the Cushing's and make her more comfortable walking.   Vetoryl is not a bad drug but it doesn't suit my Katie.   

Riley has coped well with chronic use of Flagyl, so using it in the future shouldn't cause him any problems especially if it is a short course for a specific problem. 

Jo



Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on April 26, 2013, 02:44:07 PM
The cultures are back and the results are this:  The bleeding part of the ucler showed no signs of cancer.  The mold and fungus on the outer rim of the culture have been tested positive for Apergillosis fungus.  The vet assured me that this is only in the end of the nasal area and not systemic or intrusive to the sinus passages.   She prescribed 3 drop CLotnimazole solution usp 1% in his left nostril 2 times a day, doxycyline 100 mg 3 times a day and  cefpodoxime 100 mg 2 times a day.  So.... now the regimen is....

25 mg atopica/once day
Flagyl ?mg/2 times a day
Denamarin Large /once a day
10 mg pred every other day
pepcid 2 times a day
doxy 100 mg 3 times a day
Cefpodoxime 100 mg 2 times a day
3 drops clotnimazole 2 times a day

Whew....what a time we are having just keeping up with meds.  He is totally happy with it except the nose drops which he DOES NOT like!    he is perky and happy but still having just a slight issue with balance. 
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on April 26, 2013, 03:21:00 PM
Hi Tammie

Thank goodness it is only at the end of the nasal area.  I don't blame him for not liking the nose drops but needs must!

Did the vet say why Riley still has to be on Flagyl?  This could be the reason for his balance problem.

Jo

Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on April 26, 2013, 03:22:45 PM
No she didnt but I will ask her today. 
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: gschellinger on April 27, 2013, 02:38:38 PM
Jo, you may also remember what happened to Lola when she was given Flagyl the last time. She of course had IBD as well as many other immune problems. So she had been on Flagyl several times in the past (but not for long periods of time) including after she was experiencing hereditary ataxia. For that reason her vet believed she would be fine with it again. But she was not. It was not chronic use with her, and of course the vet should have thought better of it. Within a couple of days she could barely walk at all. It took Lola 2 months to recover and she did not get back to the point she was at before taking Flagyl.

I am also one who would not give it unless I had tried everything else which may help.
g.
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on April 28, 2013, 02:20:50 PM
Hi Gail

We all have our own personal experiences and they are so useful to share on a forum like this.  At times, the information is often more reliable than the advice from vets. I believe it is all about the tolerance of the individual - and we can't always prepare for that.

Thanks for adding to the discussion. It is important we are able to share, agree and disagree.

Jo

Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on August 05, 2013, 01:58:56 PM
UPDATE ON RILEY!

Well the past 4 months have been fabulous.  Riley has regained his youth, vigor and personality.  We are now on 5mg of pred every other day and only 10 mg atopica on Monday and Thursday.   Riley has been playing and acting like he has never been sick.  He runs, plays, swims in the lake, and is as sassy as ever. 

We take him (along with the other two border collies) to the lake every weekend with us.  I take him down to the water in the mornings when it is still a decent temperature out (not too hot) and let him fetch sticks in the water.  We went three weeks ago and I noticed while he was swimming he kept tilting his head like he had water in his ear.  No biggie, got out of the lake and shook like normal and I assumed it was all good. 

Two weeks later (last week) Terry and I noticed his shaking his head a lot, scratching his ear and acting like he had an ear infection.  We bathed him not for the ear infection but because he needed it and he acted totally normal after that. 

By the way, his bloodwork has came back every month totally normal with no levels being high or low. 

Went to the lake on Friday, everything good.  Woke up Saturday and everything seemed normal.  I noticed he was a little unsturdy and looked at his eyes, they were jumping left to right really bad along with his eyebrows twitching.  Rushed him 1.5 hours away to his vet and I was told that he had vestibular swelling.  She examined his ears and said she saw no signs of an ear infection but could not see past the ear drum.  No fluid was present.  She gave him a shot of pred, upped his normal dose to 10 mg every other day, added Doxy again 2 times a day and some other antibiotic with an abbreviation of C/M (big yellow pills) three times a day. 

She ran a cbc and it came back as low platelets  and low RBC.   Last CBC was on 07/16/13 his RBC was 6.16 and platelets were 345.  Now RBC is 5.53 and platelets are 136. 

We will return for bloodwork in 5 days.  Should I be more concerned or be doing a different regimen?  Also will a food that is high in iron such as chicken livers or some type of liver help his overall anemia? 

Thanks for the advice
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on August 08, 2013, 03:34:08 PM
How disappointing for you Tammy.  What regime is Riley on now? Increasing the prednisolone to 10mg EOD and adding Doxy again won't address an autoimmune relapse, so I wonder if this episode is unrelated.   Is he still on metronidazole?

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on August 08, 2013, 04:03:15 PM
His total regime right now is 10 mg pred EOD, 10mg atopica on Monday and Thursday, Doxy 2 times a day and another antibiotic calle C/M three times a day.  We are thinking he may be presenting with some Central Nervous system issues.  His hind legs have slight tremors when he is relaxing.  Then this with his eyes shaking.  I think I notice his pupils not being the same size today.  Dr. Visit tomorrow.  I think I am going to discuss with her the possibility of an MRI.

I am giving 1tsp of salmon oil every day to support the CNS.
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: gschellinger on August 09, 2013, 04:23:45 AM
Is he on Flagyl? If so it could be causing the neuro problems. Lola had bad reactions with it.

gail
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on August 09, 2013, 01:50:48 PM
No.  He was for quite a while but has been off of it for at least a couple of months.  He is showing signs of weakness in the right rear leg and seems to be nipping at his back every now and then almost like he has a flea (which is possible).
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on August 09, 2013, 03:06:39 PM
Hi Tammy

Did your vet run a full biochemical blood test too - I'm sure they would have done.  I just wondered if anything showed up such as liver enzymes raised? 

Iron supplement would only help if the anaemia was iron deficiency anaemia.  The vet would probably have checked for this.

It doesn't seem like a relapse of his AI problem because I can't see his blood improving like that unless your vet gave him an immunosuppressive dose of preds and continued with the immunosuppressive regime.

I hope you can find out the problem soon.

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Tammie on August 09, 2013, 04:30:05 PM
LIver enzymes were raised about a month ago.  Not now. DIdnt check the liver this time. Recheck today revealed normal RBC, normal platelets (387), and all bloodwork was WNL.  She reduced the pred to 5mg EOD again and Atopica 10 mg on Monday and Thursday.

Wondering if it might be SRMA
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: Jo CIMDA on August 09, 2013, 07:13:34 PM
Hi Tammy

Riley would not be better if it had been an inflammatory autoimmune disease. I have never heard of a dog having nystagmus (eye flickers) with SRMA.

I wonder if the blood results are a red herring and perhaps there were clumps in the sample taken.  This would give a lower reading of both the platelets and the red blood cells.  It is not uncommon. This doesn't give you an answer as to why he was unsteady and had nystagmus.  It sounds like vestibular disease. This can spontaneously resolve, usually in about 3 weeks and it often starts with an inner ear problem and is most common in older dogs.  Did he have a head tilt? Is he still showing neurological signs?

Jo
Title: Re: Desperate for information!
Post by: gschellinger on August 09, 2013, 10:57:02 PM
 Lola started her journey of hereditary cerebellar ataxia in much the same way. There are maybe five breeds who can have this disease, late onset. Not sure if your breed is one of them.
gail