Recommended doses for Border Collie

[Fergus10]

Fergus is booked in for the change from florinef to Zycortal a week on Monday. I have been attempting to research how much the recommended dosage should be but would love everyone's imput.

Fergus is 21.7kg and on 6 x 0.1mg florinef daily. He very rarely requires pred and is generally a very happy dog. He was diagnosed over 3 years ago.

The vet has yet to advise a zycortal dose but advised 5mg of pred to start. I feel this is a very high doseage especially as he becomes incontinent on too much pred and being a very clean dog becomes distressed by this.

I believe he should have 1.5mg of pred once transferred.  What would people who have already done the transfer advise for both pred and zycortal?

I am talking to the vet tomorrow with regards to their plans.

Thank you in advance.

[Jo CIMDA]

Hi

I hope others will join in to this discussion.

You have probably done your research, if you haven't then please look through the articles recommended in the files.  You will find links to The Zycortal drug sheet and also links to articles produced in the USA by vets who have used the equivalent, Percorten, for decades.

From the dogs whose Zycortal results I have, with the exception of one very small Poodle, all dogs have started on the 2.2mg/kg dose and have gone a lot longer than 30 days between injections and most reaching nearer than 60 days before the next injection was needed.  All dogs have had their dosage gradually reduced, and still the duration is much longer than 30 days.  This is in line with the information from the USA.  If you study the Zycortal drug sheet, you will see that they recommend to either reduce the dose or extend the duration time.  Most owners want to establish a dose that will take their dog through to 30 days All of the dogs I know have had subsequent doses of Zycortal reduced, and as yet none have reached the optimum dose and duration.  The trials are still ongoing.  In the long run, with the correct dose established,  this will save a lot of guesswork and unnecessary monitoring bloods tests.

The BSAVA Small Animal Formulary states the replacement glucocorticoid hormone dose should be prednisolone 0.2-0.3mg/kg/per day.  The Zycortal Drug Sheet states 0.2-0.4mg/kg/per day. The replacement dose must be adjusted to the individual.  How have you arrived at the dose of 1.5mg a day prednisolone?   

The minimum starting dose for Fergus, according to the above information  should be 4.34mg pred per day, so your vet's advise seems about right.  A dose of 1.5mg pred a day for a dog weighing 21.7mg works out to be 0.069mg per kg/per day which is so low it is almost negligible. 

Cortisol is vital to a dog who is unable to produce it naturally.  It is just as important as the mineralocorticoid that he will be getting from the Zycortal.  In comparison to using Florinef, this is a very different way of treating a dog with Addison's disease and both the vets and owners in the UK are learning.  There is absolutely no glucocorticoid hormone in Zycortal so daily pred is needed for the dog be able to lead a normal life - cortisol is essential to life. 

In my opinion it is better to start at a dose of 5mg and if necessary you can gradually reduce the dose. This is a 'replacement' hormone dose and it is not by any means harmful but if the dose is too low then it could be detrimental to Fergus.

I hope you get a response from other people who are experiencing the change to Zycortal.

Jo

[Jo CIMDA]

P.S.  Have you see the details about the new Addison's research being conducted by the Royal Veterinary College?

  Please talk to your vet about taking extra blood from Fergus next time and sending a sample to the RVC.  Blood samples are essential to the success of this project.

Jo

[Fergus10]

Jo,

Thank you for such an informative reply.

I have since spoken to the head vet at the practice who's specilism is addisons.

We will be starting on the recommended starting dose of zycortal and 5mg of prednisolone. I am anxious about lots and lots of blood tests but hopefully it will go smoothly with not too many side effects. 

He's in such a good, happy place and it took us over 18 months to settle him onto florinef. Hopefully being as stable as he is this won't rock the boat too much.

I do worry that if it makes him more lively as people have reported for their dogs that he will be totally bonkers!!

As for the research I hadnt heard about. I will certainly investigate.

[Jo CIMDA]

Jo,

Thank you for such an informative reply.

I have since spoken to the head vet at the practice who's specilism is addisons.

We will be starting on the recommended starting dose of zycortal and 5mg of prednisolone. I am anxious about lots and lots of blood tests but hopefully it will go smoothly with not too many side effects. 

He's in such a good, happy place and it took us over 18 months to settle him onto florinef. Hopefully being as stable as he is this won't rock the boat too much.

I do worry that if it makes him more lively as people have reported for their dogs that he will be totally bonkers!!

As for the research I hadnt heard about. I will certainly investigate.

Hi

I hadn't heard of dogs becoming hyper - that is interesting!  It is a bit trial and error with each individual dog.

If your vet is very clued up on Addison's disease then PLEASE let him know about this research so he can enrol other Addisonian dogs too.

Good luck
Jo